The New Republic’s Gabriel Sherman predicts that the media’s love affair with Barack Obama may be coming to an end. Evidently some in the media actually want to get to the truth of who Obama really is, much to the chagrine of Obama campaign operatives:
Reporters who have covered Obama’s biography or his problems with certain voter blocs have been challenged the most aggressively. “They’re terrified of people poking around Obama’s life,” one reporter says. “The whole Obama narrative is built around this narrative that Obama and David Axelrod built, and, like all stories, it’s not entirely true. So they have to be protective of the crown jewels.” Another reporter notes that, during the last year, Obama’s old friends and Harvard classmates were requested not to talk to the press without permission.
For more than a year now the media have been attempting to locate a copy of Barack Obama’s senior thesis submitted at Columbia University. Obama says he lost his copy. His professor has been searching through old boxes trying to find his copy. The obvious question becomes what is in the thesis and is the Obama campaign intentionally protecting it from scrutiny?
NBC’s Senior Investigative Producer Jim Popkin spoke with Obama’s former professor Michael Baron:
“My recollection is that the paper was an analysis of the evolution of the arms reduction negotiations between the Soviet Union and the United States,” Baron said in an e-mail. “At that time, a hot topic in foreign policy circles was finding a way in which each country could safely reduce the large arsenal of nuclear weapons pointed at the other … For U.S. policy makers in both political parties, the aim was not disarmament, but achieving deep reductions in the Soviet nuclear arsenal and keeping a substantial and permanent American advantage. As I remember it, the paper was about those negotiations, their tactics and chances for success. Barack got an A.”
Is it possible, however, that Barack Obama’s thesis involved disarming the United States? This seems to be exactly what he is calling for in the video below:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE]
Pix,
I was actually referring to your Hannity quote, and it was just all in good fun.
Greg
Greg, Arthur is not my enemy just a misguided brother….haha I am sure he thinks that about me
Pixelmaster,
I thought Jesus said to love your enemies! (Just a little jab in Christian love of course) But it doesn’t mean you have to like them!
Greg
in the previous I meant I loved Hannity, as in past tense……haha….
b/Bo,
Thanks for the comments, With respect to Arthur, I want to bring it back a bit. The reason why I sound so harsh is that I was in your shoes. I love Hannity, I listened to “trustworthy” christian talk that laid out the case that right wing is God’s way. Until I actually allowed myself to read the other side and challenge my thinking. This was especially the case when I started to witness lies from my “christian” brothers to protect their political party. That was over the top to me, I search for truth, and honestly, if you get out of the mold of the right wing you start to have the scales lifted and realize how anti christian the right wing of our faith has become. Arthur, I commend you to honestly start to listen to voices on all sides, if you read world magazine pick up a copy of sojorners(SP?). If you watch Fox, take a look at MSNBC, if you read townhall, look at huffington. Only listenting to one side because you can “trust” it is an easy way to be decieved. I was, and I want to encourage others not to be either. God Bless, when it comes to God we are on the same side brother…
b/Bo…I agree, that just because someone wears an eye patch, a black shirt with a scull and crossbones and says ARGH, doesn’t make them a pirate…it maybe the only shirt they have…*: )
Kierkegaard said something to the tune of “when you label me, you negate me.” It’s much easier to just slap a left/right/centrist label on someone politically, socially, theologically, etc. than to actually try to understand them (much less to compare their stance to the kingdom of God ideals).
Jesus frustrated the hell out of the Zealots, Herodians/Saducees, Pharisees, and Essenes because his position couldn’t be easily labeled as any one of the four – it was something reminiscent but higher, nobler, better.
Without an honest look at the flaws in our own position and a comparison to what Jesus would have us do instead, we just perpetuate these polemics and label games without anyone benefiting from it.
I commend Pixelmaster for trying to be cirumspect, honest, and faithful to the kingdom with the complexity of this situation. “Test everything; cling to what is good.” That even applies to right-wing propaganda (which incidentally does NOT make one leftist – that is a silly, absurd, and juvenile proposition).
Nancy, I know it looks like I am leftist and I can only attribute that to my distain for the right and how it has had a negative impact on a faith that I cherish dearly. Once you get out of the right wing spin machine you start to realize how radical and crazy it is to be a christian and support that movement. As I have stated many times, I agree with their positions on the issues, the solutions are way off.
BTW, Arthur, you really show your hand when you make a comment like “I try to avoid the Huffington Post where she blames Sean Hannity for the church shootings in TN”. If you read the article, 1 Arriana Huffington didn’t write it, 2. it points out FACTS that the shooter was a fan of O’Reilly, Hannity and Savage. It points out FACTS of some of the radical comments they make on the air. It points out FACTS that those “radical” left wingers would never say anyting so crazy as the figureheads on the right do. The FACT that he did the act because the church was too “liberal” and they were to blame for his problems in life. I guess if you only surround yourself with those voices then you will be inclined not to research facts for yourself.
Here is the article if you are so inclined, I doubt it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-kim/right-wing-tn-church-shoo_b_115789.html
I love it how many on the right fight against relativism, yet in the sheltered world of FoxNews, Hannity, O’Rielly et al, and Right Wing “christian” radio they somehow think they have the only truth.
Hmmm…Pixel, you do use some facts…but it begins to look like you protest far too much to merely be a centrist/moderate…are you sure you haven’t fallen off the left side of the world and bumped you head?
EXXON RAKES IN $11.68 BILLION IN 3 MONTHS… SHELL FOLLOWS WITH $11.6 BILLION IN EARNINGS –
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/31/oil-profits-shatter-recor_n_116022.html
No, it’s not about the Oil. ROFL
Let’s go a little further here:
You think “they hate us because of our freedoms and rights” If this is the case then why are they not attacking Denmark? They are more free than we are. I will tell you why, Bin Laden laid it out and it is on the 9/11 commission report. They hate us because we are occupying their holy land. Why do I believe this? They said it and it makes sense. Hating us because we are free is nonsense.
You think, “I bet you think that Saddam had something to do with 9/11” This one baffles me, where is the proof? I tell you why I think it is not the case, Joe Wilson, he came out with the evidance that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and you know what? Coincidently, his CIA covert wife was outed. Hmmm do you think they were trying to muffle Joe Wilson? I think an intelligent person like yourself can figure that out.
You think “that he actually had WDM’s and we are fighting this war to liberate the Iraqies, and it has nothing to do with Oil.” As stated, he HAD them, the question is weather he did when we invaded him? Why do I think he didn’t, WE NEVER FOUND THEM. There were many reports at the time stating that he did not have them but the president and he war mongering Neocon advisors chose to ignore that intelligence. As stated earlier, I have spoken with Iraqies personally, Saddam was not as “evil” as we have been lead to believe, in fact he was doing everything he could to keep his country afloat after we imposed sanctions on the Iraqies and many elderly and children died of starvation. I know this Arthur, because I asked, I asked people who have family still over there, Family that are now refugees in other countries. Who long for the days when Saddam was in power. Finally I know this was about Oil because of the overwhelming evidence. The downing street memo, the fact that since invading Iraq the Oil companies are making record profits, the fact that our President and many of his advisor are Oil people. The right wing and republican party are about corperatism, big profits for big business and they use, you, your vote because you think they care at all about your petty social issues. Why as nothing been done? More judges? Comon
I want to make myself clear the Dems are no better but atleast they don’t where religion on their sleeve to get votes.
Arthur, you really are caught up in right wing propaganda, Yes Saddam HAD WMD’s and that is a fact because WE sold them to him. Yes he did use them on his own people in 1988. However, disarmed them in 1991 after the gulf war. The president when trying to rally for war used intelligence that was from 1991. Saddam also admitted that the only reason why he was playing his cards the way he was was because of the threat that if Iran knew they didn’t have any defenses then Iran would attack them and they had no powerful ally , ala Isreal and the United States. Arthur, pick up a book once in a while and read on these issues and find out what facts really are because at this point they really are opinions for you, wrong ones. I know people two families from Iraq personally, try talking to people who know this stuff first hand, they will tell you that most of the right wing propaganda is lies. Did you know that Saddam was sympathetic to christians in his country because they were the only ones he could trust? I got that from two indendent sources, not in the media. I feel badly for you man, if you actually think that all those things I listed are true, you really need to get out of right wing world and realize that you are being fed a line.
Books I recommend for you:
The greatest story ever sold – Frank Rich
Blackwater – Jeremy Scahill
BlowBack – Chalmers Johnson
Republican Noise Machine – David Brock
You can actually get them in audio form from the library if reading is not your style. I used to be in your camp Arthur, until I realized that supporting war, torture and spying on Americans(along with all the other republican corruption) was something that didn’t seem right or christian. Once you read stuff from the other side, something outside right wing propaganda the missing peices to the puzzle start to come in place. I am not a leftist by any means, however I can hardly idendity with much of the way the right fights it issues. I agree with the positions, completely disagree with the solutions.
I actually do believe those things. I assume since you didn’t respond, you ignored the facts posted that showed that Hussein had WMDs which he had used on his own populace. But the facts seem pretty irrelevant when they come into contact with your leftist propaganda.
I try to avoid the Huffington Post where she blames Sean Hannity for the church shootings in TN. That is not the sort of balance I, or anyone, needs. I also don’t read O’Reilly or Hannity or Drudge or WorldNetDaily. I form my own opinions on the news. You ought to try it.
“Since you are such a self-proclaimed history buff, try reading stuff not written by Noam Chomsky for a change.” Who do you recommend? Sean Hannity and Bill O’Rielly???
Actually, I recommend books by John Dean, Chalmers Johnson, Jeremy Scahill, Kevin Phillips and George Crile. Oh yeah, you might want to balance your life a little and pay a visit to Huffington Post. Townhall, Drudge and WorldNetDaily only give a quarter of the picture.
Arthur, Your comments do seem to indicate that they hate us because of our freedoms and rights, I bet you think that Saddam had something to do with 9/11, that he actually had WDM’s and we are fighting this war to liberate the Iraqies, and it has nothing to do with Oil. Do you believe all those things????
Pixel, how many Iranian youth who are training to be terrorists have any idea what happened in 1953? Their hatred stems from being raised to hate the decadent West as infidels. The conflict has been going on for far longer than 1953 and your random comments about world events hardly qualified you as having a “grasp” of history.
How predictable was this comment: “When at times we are the ones causing the conflicts, or our actions result in blowback that come back to haunt us(9/11).”
Ah yes, the janitor in the World Trade Center had it coming because of our empire building in the middle east (despite the lack of an empire of any sort) Since you are such a self-proclaimed history buff, try reading stuff not written by Noam Chomsky for a change. America is many things, and is flawed in many ways, but imperialism is hardly one of them. The difference is that while I see America’s flaws, you see only our faults.
Pixelmaster,
Thank you for your compliment. I’ve always loved history. Even though we have a true fundamental difference of opinion regarding this situation, I must also compliment you on your gentlemanly approach to this debate. This is the kind of debate that I thoroughly enjoy because it keeps to the issues and does not merely degenerate into name-calling. That kind of debate reminds me of an illustration my Dad used to use in his sermons. There was a preacher that was writing his outline for his weekly message, and off to the side he wrote “Weak point – Yell!” It’s refreshing to delve deep and not yell or be yelled at!
I do realize that we have deep differences in our perspectives, but I pray that God will use this debate to draw us closer to the real truth of the matter. Thanks again for the lively, entertaining and hopefully enlightening debate. I hope to spar with you again (in Christian love, of course!)
Greg
Great info, Greg, atleast you have a grasp of history, i think all too often people have no clue and think we are a beaken of light to this dark world. When at times we are the ones causing the conflicts, or our actions result in blowback that come back to haunt us(9/11).
Pixelmaster,
I am aware that Mohammed Mosaddeq (there’s a name our wonderful public education system rarely mentions!) was elected by the Majlis of Iran, also known as the Iranian Parliament in 1951 and in 1952 cut off all diplomatic ties with the United Kingdom, who had explored and opened Iran’s vast oil fields in the early 20th century and had worked out a 60 year lease for control of those petroleum resources (which was compensation for opening the oil fields in the first place).
Mosaddeq did not approve of this arrangement because he felt that Iran was getting cheated, thus leading to the ending of diplomatic ties. He was also showing sympathy toward Soviet style communism and posed a clear and present threat to the region. By your comments, you failed to recognize that there was deep-seeded support on both sides of this issue within Iran. Understanding the strategic importance of the flow of oil, the UK and USA decided they needed to back the coup as well as the Shah, who had been the duly appointed monarch since 1941. So your accusation that “our CIA overthrew an democratically elected leader to put in someone sympathetic to our interests,” doesn’t quite ring completely true.
The result of the coup was suppression of the communist factions (always a good result for the cause of freedom) and a marked improvement of the Iranian economy as well as the break-up of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now British Petroleum or BP) between BP and eight american and European oil companies.
Again, you are repeating the tired accusation of empire building in the Middle East. Since when have we annexed any region in the Middle East? As I pointed out before, if we wanted to, we had and still have the firepower to seize the oil fields and annex them for our own personal use, which we did not do.
I have no doubt that you love this country and you say that you love it because of it’s values. However, there is one value it seems that you don’t appreciate and that is free enterprise. A rudimentary understanding of basic economics is essential to basic understanding of political theory. Oil is the fuel of freedom because it keeps all of our shipping and transportation options open, which in turn allows for the free exchange of goods. This is one of the factors that open so many possibilities for creative entrepreneurs to pursue unlimited opportunities for success which “trickles down” (this term torques so many people on the left, which is why I love it) to their employees and families. This give the employees more income to spend in the economy which completes the cycle and everyone benefits.
Is it a perfect system? Of course not! It’s run by fallen human beings which is why there needs to be checks and balances to ward off abuses of the system, but not full government and intervention, because as that great philosopher, Unknown once said, “No man’s life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.” Amen and Amen. Can I get a witness? Oops, I forgot I am a Baptist. Anyway, Congress and the Judicial branch just needs to stop monkeying around with the economy and focus on preserving life (of which they have done an extremely poor job!), liberty (What our military is continuing to do in Iraq, quite honorably I might add, thank you very much!) and the PURSUIT of happiness (no ones’ happiness is guaranteed, only the opportunity to succeed should be.)
Finally (it’s about time Rice!) as Christians, do we believe that God is ultimately in control? If we believe the Bible as His infallible Word, ABSOLUTELY! If He decides we need to endure hardship, then that is truly what is best for us. However, we should study the important issues so we can “…be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear”. (I Peter 3:15) This reference is an admonition to share our faith (you DO share your faith?!) but it does illustrate the importance of knowing what we believe in all areas of life.
Pixelmaster, I do want to thank you for a stimulating debate and for strengthening my faith in this great country of ours.
Arthur,
1953 is recent history when it comes to national animosity towards other nations. If you don’t understand why they are still mad at us you are suseptable to false patriotism. I love my country because of it’s values, but I recongnize that we are not exactly angels to the rest of the world with our empire building efforts in the middle east. Amadinajad says some crazy things but when you understand the framing what he says them you realize why they are being said. I have heard is said he is some kind of evil dictator, what actions back up that claim? none.
BTW, in 1953 our CIA overthrew an democratically elected leader to put in someone simpathetic to our interests. Also, remember we backed Saddam Hussan when Iraq was at war with Iran. There are many other examples of why they hate us and lowest on the list because we are free and allow our women to vote.
Really, what happened in 1953? That is your retort? I suppose you blame the Egyptian animosity towards Israel on the Israelites taking all that Egyptian loot with them during the Exodus.
In 1953? About twenty years before I was born. Remember that whole hostage thing? Remember that when you adopt a “Blame America and surrender” position.
Greg, Are you aware of what our CIA did in Iran in 1953? Remember that when you say they are hostile towards us.
hoosier,
Whether it is Mahmoud I’m-a-dinner-jacket or Mohammed Khatami, the principle is still the same. Ever since the fall of the Shah in February of 1979, Iran has been hostile to us and at that time rekindled hatred against the State of Israel. There has been no indication that the Iranian position has softened toward us in any way, therefore there is nothing to discuss. These are extremist leaders with nothing but hatred for us. Negotiation is an impossibility due to their position against us.
Thank you Arthur. One can always pray!
Greg, great comment but don’t think for a minute that facts and rational thought can overcome Pixelmasters emotion and paranoia.
Pixelmaster,
It is a scary thought especially that India and Pakistan have the bomb because of their animosity toward each other, but since Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out and out says that he wants to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth, how do you negotiate with that? This is the stand that just about every radical Islamic faction has taken. The only way to appease them is to surrender and accept Sharia as our system of law. To do otherwise under Sharia, is punishable by death.
I understand fear of nuclear weapons. They are the most devastating weapons ever developed and they are a horrible way to die. But we need to accept that this world is fallen and until the Lord returns to make all things new, we have to deal with the reality of human nature.Jeremiah 17:9 tells us that “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” All we can go by is what someone has said and done in the past. Ahmadinejad has clearly stated his position and has acted accordingly and we must take this threat seriously. He certainly has not been ambiguous.
I do find it curious that you are accusing me of allowing the media determine my views on this matter. I find 99% of what I do see on television news to be highly offensive to my sense of right and wrong. I believe that if you are honest with yourself that you will find that your views dovetail rather well with what the media is trying to sell us as the truth. I am growing rather tired of the accusation that the Iraq war was largely due to oil. If that were true, with the arsenal that we possess, we could have seized the oil fields within a few weeks and had the oil flowing almost like water and we wouldn’t be in this oil price crisis right now. But of course that is not the right thing to do because we would then be taking what does not belong to us.
What many on the left do not want to admit is that Saddam Hussein gassed his own people. With what did he do this? Pam?! No, I believe it was mustard gas. Wait, that can’t be. That’s a WMD and we didn’t find any of those! So it MUST have been Pam! Saddam Hussein did not live up to the demands of the 1991 surrender terms and therefore, this was just a continuation of hostilities from the first Gulf conflict. Why did he kick out the UN weapons inspectors? Were they getting too close to the Pam he used to gas his own people? That’s the only conclusion to which I can come.
I also understand that you want peace and that is noble and right. The problem is, when has there been a time when talking to one’s enemies actually led to a peaceful resolution? I would like to see one successful example of this type of policy in action.
The greatest failure of a policy like this, of which I am aware, began with annexation of the Rhineland on March 7, 1936 by Germany. One by one, various regions strategic to Germany, including Austria and the Sudetenland, were being annexed without any military intervention to prevent it.
Then came the infamous Munich Agreement which effectively turned over the rest of Czechoslovakia to the Germans in an effort to keep the Germans from annexing more territory. It has been said that when this offer was made to Hitler, he LEPT for his pen! Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain of Great Britain returned home to London and gave his speech declaring “Peace for our time.” Chamberlain firmly believed that Hitler was a rational man and could be placated by giving him what he wanted.
But then on September 1, 1939 the unthinkable happened. Hitler invaded Poland and after an ultimatum by Chamberlain was ignored, Great Britain declared war on Germany. It was through the policies of both Stanley Baldwin (Chamberlain’s predecessor) and Chamberlain that led to the rise of the Third Reich and the bloodiest war in the history of Mankind.
Simply talking to the enemy with a pure heart without military muscle to back up your words is futility in action. The key is a pure heart and a motive to promote freedom. This is an American principle, not a Neo-Con (a term that is ill-defined and inaccurate when applied to my own political worldview) principle. Shouldn’t we stick with terms that have been defined and have true significant meaning? Oops, I forgot. We live a in a post-modern world where any term we use can have whatever meaning we want to assign to it. Never mind!
I got the news clip from that far left bastion, Yahoo! news posting from the Associated Press. I am assuming that you think that the AP is a tool of the Bush administration and in the pocket of the neo-cons. Here is another article from that right wing group you should read that talks about how the Bush-McCain surge has worked and that we are *GASP* winning the war.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080726/ap_on_an/iraq_winning_the_war
If you get away from the far left blogs long enough to develop your own opinion instead of parroting left wing conspiracy theories and hopelessness, you might see what is really happening.
You really think that Iran is developing nukes because they fear India’s nukes? Haven’t you heard the Iranian’s stated position that they seek to destroy Israel. Do you think that if you repeat the canard that Iraq was about oil despite the evidenced to the contrary, it will becom true?
You ought to try not repeating the talking points of the appeasement loving, 60’s nostalgia seeking, yellow belly surrender monkey libs that control the left.
Arthur, where did you get that news clip, NeoCon Times?
I understand all that, however, put yourself in Iran’s shoes. Pakastan, India and Isreal all have the bomb. Isreal has a load of them. They are sitting on a bunch of Oil, they witness the US topple Iraq, largely due to Oil, and now they feel this will help them defend themselves. I am not saying that it is a good idea, in fact I think no nukes for all is the best idea. But stop letting the media determine your views on this and try to look at these issues from someone elses perspective. Our government, CIA etc is far from innocent around the world, we need to realize that and stop trying to be the police of the world. I don’t think Obama would advocate unilateral reduction, it would have to be something that the world decides. You know how to accomplish that? Talk to your enemies, the right would call that appeasment, this is where I think too many have lost track of what works and are simply repeating the talking points of the war mongering neocons that control the right.
Pixelmaster,
I believe one point that you are missing is that when we struck Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were fighting an enemy that was not afraid to use suicide pilots (Kamakazi) to take out enemy targets. The most infamous Kamakazi attack (the USS Bunker Hill May 11, 1945) came only 4 days after Germany signed it’s first instrument of surrender, and only 3 days after the second (May 7 and 8, 1945). This attack only showed that Japan was determined to fight to ultimate victory or to the bitter end.
Even though it was controversial, the bombing ultimately ended more bloodshed by forcing the unconditional surrender of Japan. Because of this sign of our military strength, Japan had no choice but to surrender. The proof of the necessity of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks has been realized over the last 63 years of peace with Japan. The same holds true in the surrenders of the Axis forces in Europe.
Since we were attacked, our involvement in World War II can be considered a just war and as such, anything we could have done to end it was ultimately done and the use of nuclear weapons since that time has proven to be unnecessary. If we implement the policies that Barack Obama advocates in this video and we do reduce our nuclear capabilities, and if another nation with no interest in restraint develops nuclear weapons, there will be no way to stop them from attacking and annihilating their enemies.
Now is not the time to stand down.
Obama isn’t hiding nothing, the News, the news can bring out about Love Childrens, the news hasn’t touched this guy yet, why?, because it’s a bunch of fools telling us how to vote, the polls, the polls mean nothing, you have made pretty boy look good to long, do we have people in the Media that do ower voting and thinking also, the news sucks, the coverage sucks, most of all the news-people suck, we have sick-o people that wants us to turn ower country over to a guy that agrees with GOD DAM AMERICA, is this how the world comes to a end, then people let it be, to follow someone like this, to hear him speak, he’s saying GOD DAM YOU ALL FOOLS.
Arthur of all the nukes that have ever been produced who is the only country to ever use one? Maybe we should be fearing ourselves????
Meanwhile,
“TEHRAN, Iran – President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Saturday that Iran now possesses 6,000 centrifuges, a significant increase in the number of uranium-enriching machines in its nuclear program, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.”
Want to wait for the mushroom cloud over NYC to act Pixelmaster?
Arthur,
Finally some brevity. Thank you sir!
The shortfall of knowledge from the vantage point your post proves why these matters require someone of maturity and true world vision to engage in them. I’m no expert at these issues, but I was around in the Bay of Pigs era, the kidnapping and seizure of one of our foreign embassy’s, the capture of some of our American students, the attack on several of our military ships and so on, only to mention a few. I recognize this fact however; history proves the necessity to have someone of courage and aptitude at the helm. What might have been if Mr. Qaddafi had not been silenced, or Grenada was allowed to walk over our people can only be guessed at now. It is easy to second guess all these decisions, but a much more difficult task to decide them at the time they occur. Usually only history proves out the rightness of a action taken, but I am grateful that these I allude to, were made by leaders with wisdom and maturity. Most of these actions do reflect on the safety and security of the American public. I thank God for these men. Where would we be as a free nation today if Libya, Cuba, Russia, Grenada were allowed to have had their desires? Surely all the collective intellect on these pages can conclude that answer. Again, I thank God for these leaders.
May the Lord bless you this day.
Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?
Germany in the 1940’s wasn’t a threat to the U.S. Sure Hitler was invading his neighbors but no skin off our backs! Sure he had a atomic weapons program, but he never actually used them. And we are still occupying Germany with our bases 60 years later. Curses on FDR and his never ending occupation of a country that was no threat to us at all!
Your naïveté here is staggering. A little trip down memory lane may be in order. In 1990 Iraq invaded it’s neighbor Kuwait and began an occupation (an occupation that unlike this one actually WAS about oil) Coalition forces drove them out in 1991 and set forth sanctions aimed at Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. From Wikipedia:
“The aftermath of the war saw the Iraqi military, especially its air force, destroyed. In return for peace, Iraq was forced to accept “no-fly zones,” dismantle all chemical and biological weapons it possessed, and end any attempt to create or purchase nuclear weapons, to be assured by the allowing UN weapons inspectors to evaluate the dismantlement of such weapons. Finally, Iraq would face sanctions if it disobeyed any of the demands.”
“After the war, Iraq on a number of occasions throughout the 1990s was accused of breaking its obligations, including the discovery in 1993 of a plan to assassinate former President George H. W. Bush, and the removal of UN weapon inspectors in 1998 (the Iraqi government claimed that it suspected that some inspectors were spies for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. As a result of these violations, economic sanctions were imposed upon Iraq.”
Those sanctions were constantly flaunted under the Clinton administration, which Wild Bill responded to with bluster and the occasional air strike to draw attention away from his misdeeds. Under the oh so effective sanctions, half a million Iraqi children died while Hussein thumbed his nose at the world from his gold plated toilet. For a decade we flew missions over Iraq to no avail, and the Iraqi people suffered. Inspectors were kicked out, so we had no way of knowing what he was doing (and the inspectors were there because EVERYONE KNEW that Hussein wanted to develop and posses weapons of mass destruction). I guess it would have been preferable to wait until the Iraqi’s gave us proof by nuking Tel Aviv.
Saddam Hussein had possessed and continued to try to develop WMDs under the Clinton regime. The bodies of Kurds gassed by Hussein prove this. Our big error was waiting for the UN to get off it’s collective duffs before we went in, given Iraq time to hide it’s WMD materials. Apparently though in your worldview, it is OK for people to languish under a dictator and for that dictator to constantly threaten his neighbors as long as it doesn’t directly impact American soil.
That must be why you are so much more compassionate that “far right” conservatives!
“Yeah Pixel, we went to war to seize Iraqi oil, which explains the rock bottom low gas prices…oh wait.”
In a perfect world we would have rock bottom oil prices, however, the oil companies are making out like bandits. Arthur are you telling me you actually think the Iraq was about WMD’s or maybe you believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11. If you still believe those things you might want to come out of 2003 to 2008 where we have a lot more information now that confirms that we were duped into a never ending occupation of a country that was no threat to us at all.
Paul, I don’t think Obama is hiding anything because I don’t think he believes in anything. He just says what he thinks people want to hear. He is the perfect modern candidate, pleasant to listen to, looks good on camera and stands for and believes in nothing.
Yeah Pixel, we went to war to seize Iraqi oil, which explains the rock bottom low gas prices…oh wait.
b/Bo,
The issue is that Paul would say that Iraq was about WDM’s not Oil. Infact in his attack on Obama yesterday he even echoed that sentement. Dispite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Downing street memo, the document showing the Oil fields in Iraq and which ones are prime locations.
Bush jokes about WMD’s at white house dinner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjXPOxnu2N8
Real funny Mr. President…….I have said it before, family values extends beyond the single issue of abortion.
“And yet I rarely hear you crictize the radical policies of the Christian Left as embodied in Barack Obama”
Paul,
Look at many of my posts in the past; I think the far left is just as wrong as the far right. I advocate going in the center, my issue with the social conservatives is their solution is to go further to the right to fix our issues. I am concerned that this stance will make a virtual domination of the left for the next 8 years. I am very concerned with this. The solution is not to go farther to the extremes it is coming to the middle and saying what can we do to fix the issues. This is one of the things that I have admired about McCain in the past, and one of the criticisms that he gets from the far right. My posts are an attempt to even the playing field here on this site, and hopefully bring to light that there are other, very Christian ways of looking at the world outside of how the right frames things. Trust me it is very transparent when you are aware of it.
It has sickened me to see what has happened to the Christian community in the past 7 years, to see them step aside on all the scandals and injustices, that this “Christian” administration has done. What’s worse is not only do they step aside but I witness blatant lying for the right wing agenda. My God is a God of truth, anyone who has to lie to further the kingdom is furthering the kingdom of this world not of the Kingdom of God. It’s not about being left or right, both extremes have their issues.
Let me show you the definition of insanity.
On Onenewsnow an economist at the Heritage Foundation was advocating that bailing out Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae at the taxpayer’s expense is a good thing. Let’s get this straight, a right wing organization that advocates lower taxes and deregulation, thinks it’s OK to make the tax payers bailout huge corporations because of a problem cause largely as a result of deregulation of the mortgage industry. That is a prime example of right wing policy. Friendly to big business, not to the little people. Oh and BTW, we had a republican controlled government from 2002 – 2006 and nothing was done about abortion, it is called a wedge issue folks, they use it for your vote and do nothing about the issue because they will need it next voting cycle.
Jesus advocated peace and defense not right wing military dominance. Read the Project for a New American Century created by all the right wing icons and explain how military dominance is a christian stance.
Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant and cut off his right ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.)
Joh 18:11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”
Joh 18:12 So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews arrested Jesus and bound him.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. (eh hem, VOTE GOP God’s Own Party)
Paul, Pix is talking about plundering other countries, not protecting our citizens.
I agree with the Romans 13 reference, which is the role of government. Your other reference is to citizens protecting themselves, though, and remember that Jesus said two swords were enough for the dozen of them; and when the soldiers did come for Jesus and Peter started swinging one of the two swords, Jesus put a stop to it, healed the guy, and went along peacefully.
That elephant certainly has a lot of different viewing angles, eh?
Right, Pixelmaster. Which is why Jesus encouraged his disciples to carry swords and Paul validated the military protection of citizens (Romans 13) as representatives of God’s authority.
Left does not mean Christian either, Pixelmaster. And yet I rarely hear you crictize the radical policies of the Christian Left as embodied in Barack Obama. Seems to me you advocate trading one master (the Right) for another (the Left).
I’m with ya, Pix. BTW, did you ever notice that 7:21 doesn’t talk about getting into heaven in the afterlife, but rather about entering the KINGDOM of Heaven? It’s time for us all to embrace and live according to Kingdom of God principles and so be salt and light in a world so desperately in need of it instead of misguidedly trying to get people into a temporary, celestial holding place.
Also, I want to add, I completely agree with the positions that the social conservatives take on the issues, I just think their solitions are more political than christ centered.
“Is it possible, however, that Barack Obama’s thesis involved disarming the United States?”
Yeah, that would be such a bad thing after all we were found on christian priciples right? and we all know that Jesus advocated war and violance to pluder other countries Oil and to backrupt a nations treasury for war profiteers.
The more I understand that positions of the right the more I realize that it is completely antichristian. I guess that is not an issue if theology is not obediance based.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Right does not mean christian….