With panic overtaking the global financial markets and the outcome of the U.S. presidential election looking favorable to Senator Obama, these words from John Piper in his latest book Spectacular Sins need to be heard:
It seems to me that Christians in the West are being coddled. We suffer little in the name of Christ. Therefore, we read the Bible not with a desperate hunger for evidences of God’s triumph over pain, but with a view to improving our private pleasures.
Therefore, we read the Bible selectively. We pick a text here or there to fit our felt needs. This is like a doctor who forgets how to write prescriptions for the best antibiotics because everybody seems healthy, and he has spent the last decades tweaking good healh with hip-hop excercise videos, unaware that pestilence is at the door. It’s like the soldier who forgets how to use his weapons because the times seem peaceful, and he has spent the last decades doing relief work and teaching children how to play games.
But the times are changing. For seventy million baby boomers, for example, life has changed. It seems very short now. What used to be a fond nostalgia for the sixties has turned into an ache that the beloved decade is now so far away that its main meaning is: we are dying. Different ages get the message in different ways.
And not only life, but the world too is shrinking. People who don’t like Christians are all around us. Only a strange providence keeps our churches from being bombed. It’s only a matter of time till the reality of the rest of the world comes home…
The coddled Western world will sooner or later give way to great affliction. And when it does, whose vision of God will hold? Where are Christians being prepared for great global sorrows? Where is the Christian mind and soul being prepared for the horrors to come? Christians in the West are weakened by wimpy worldviews. And wimpy worldviews make wimpy Christians. God is weightless in our lives. He is not terrifyingly magnificent. His sovereignty is secondary (at best) to his sensitivity.
. . . . . . . . . .
I am writing this book to build a vision of God into our lives that will not let us down in the worst of times. I mean really bad times. Horrific times. Who is prepared to meet the Agony that is coming?
. . . . . . . . . .
Global cataclyms and personal catasrophes are coming. I say this not as one with my finger in the wind, but with my finger in the Bible.
The election of Barack Obama will be the beginning of sorrows for followers of Jesus Christ. The more I learn about Obama, the more convinced I am that he is a closet Muslim with anti-Israel sympathies. His adulation by people around the world, and the admiration he has gained from world leaders with no record to support such a response leads me to believe that there is a spiritual power at work which has elevated this man above his pay-grade.
I am convinced that should God appoint this man to office, God will use him to inflict great persecution against the church of Jesus Christ, driving Christians to their knees while separating wheat from chaff and sheep from goats. Will the real Christians please stand up!
Jeff and b/Bo,
Listen to yesterday’s Way Of The Master Radio program and specifically the witnessing encounter at the end of Hour 1 and Todd Friel’s commentary at the beginning of Hour 2 regarding those who are suffering. Here is the address:
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/podcast/2008/10/09/october-09-2008-hour-1/
Catherine is an example of “the least of these” that we are called to reach. If this does not break our hearts, we need to question our own spiritual health. You can read the full account at my friend Trish Ramos website http://www.fishwithtrish.com (I just LOVE that name!) We are called to weep with those who weep because we cannot always know what the will of God is in a person’s life, but it is more dangerous to allow ourselves to reject God’s working in our lives. But it begs the question. Where is her church?!!! Please pray for Catherine. She is suffering so much more than we could ever understand without actual experience. Thanks!
That’s great Nancy we need more churches like yours.
Oh, when we serve…we tell them who we are and why we are and that we serve a God that brings life and life abundant through His Living Word, but if they shrink back…we love them anyway just because they ARE!
Comment #46…I can definitely say YES…there are other churches in our area that are filled with truly Godly Christians and most of us would all find other churches and continue to serve, but our church serves the community with many outreach ministries and we love each other and our pastors.
We send out missionary groups (our own members) to Mexico often, probably on the average of monthly…to South America on the average of three times yearly, as well as to other nations, to help build churches and fund food, clothes, medical and school supplies. Our church families take in a large number of the foster children in our county… We are taught to LOVE and SERVE, letting the Living Word of God dwell in us richly!
As a community of believers, we support one another and the community…It would be sad to lose that support in our community, however, just because our church disappeared, Jesus would not leave…service in His name would continue…because we are taught to serve.
OK Jeff,
The purpose of my last comment was not to raise any more issues other than to make the point that no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, if you truly want to change anything, it takes a great deal of work and a rock solid commitment to your core beliefs. I also wanted to illustrate that I still believe it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, but I am not afraid of a good scrap either, especially if it gets people thinking through the logical conclusions of their core beliefs.
You have raised a number of new issues that I am happy to discuss, however it will take a little time to work on it. However, I do believe it is important to address your issues and I am looking forward to doing so.
I wholeheartedly and unapologetically proclaim that I am politically a conservative, not Republican, CONSERVATIVE. But even more than that, I am a fully devoted follower of Jesus Christ and I pray every day that he guides my thoughts and actions in a way that best exemplifies His working in my life. I also admit that I do not have all of the answers, but I am diligently seeking for wisdom each and every day. I have serious issues on both sides of the political spectrum, obviously more so on the left side of the aisle, but both sides are inconsistent with my core beliefs, but that’s par for the course in a fallen world.
If you want to take this offline, I am willing to do so (these comments are getting rather long!) You know how to get in touch with me. Either way, it promises to be a wild ride! Thanks.
OK Greg, first of all, I am not a conservative or a liberal. I think both have good ideas and bad ideas. You mentioned that you fear Obama because he is the biggest socialist in many years. That word socialism doesn’t scare me, in fact I think there are many biblical aspects of it and I think the first Christians practiced it. So here is where I think I differ from you, you are a conservative and you think we need to kick out the liberals and the fake conservatives who side with them. It is Us v them mentality. This will NEVER get anything accomplished. Much of this mindset came about in the conservative movement thanks to Newt Gingrich(Read Conservative without Conscience J W Dean). I abhor that mindset, it permeates the Christian mindset tremendously always avoiding “The World” Us v Them. Greg, here is the problem, as a conservative you believe in less government, right? Well the only folks in this country that have less government are the corporations that are robbing us blind. Do you personally have less government? Fly lately? Notice at all the stop light cameras everywhere? Notice your Social security #is being called a personal identification #? What about the Real ID, ever look into that? All these things were put through under a “conservative” White House and Congress. That is “less” government? Meanwhile, ALL the social aspects that I voted for seem to be at a stand still, but all we need is 1 more judge, right, give me a break 7 of the 9 were appointed by republicans. I feel completely betrayed by the conservative movement and after I read the trilogy by John Dean I understand why. He explained the use of abortion and other social issues to keep people of faith coming back. I highly recommend his books. Anyway, so I had to step back and say whom shall I stand for. So what do we do, I have listened to Paul Edwards say that though we have had the Christian Right for 30 some years nothing seems to be accomplished, his answer go further to the right. My answer, come to the middle. I asked everyone to come to the middle, stop putting our flag on one side or the other and take a look at each issue individually. Do I believe in personal conservative responsibility? Absolutely, however I recognize that there are many in our society and need help and the church can’t do it all(nowadays they don’t seems to want to do anything), so I think Government is needed to pick up those who need it. I think too often the fringe of our society are determining our social direction and everything is an either this or either that. I have stepped out of that and said I don’t agree with either. Do I think that completely outlawing abortion is going to fix anything, most likely not, however the liberals are way off base in their support of it no matter the term. Absurd, as a person who is prolife and against abortion I recognize that the answer is not political it should be individual(I firmly believe this was Jesus’ MO). Should Dobson be using donated money to create political organizations to elect pro life folks or would it be more Christ centered to use the money to help those who are most likely to get an abortion? Should we change the dynamic and help to make adoption easier to come by and support those who need it or should we vote people who are prolife in office and have fiscal policies that actually make the condition of those who are most likely to get an abortion worse?
What I have seen in the Republican party since my eyes have been opened to this stuff has made me sick at times. Add to it the using of our faith and it makes me mad. BTW, these latest tactics that McCain and Palin have been using just make me even more fumed. I do not support Obama, but when folks start screaming “Terrorists” or “Kill ‘em” at rallies it is up to them to denounce that. However, this is what they want, they want rage against Obama. It is very low. My wife even said the other day she has a desire to vote Obama for the simple distain for McCain/Palin, I keep her even keel that we have an alternative. BTW, this is the way the right wing handles EVERYTHING fear, be scared.
If the Republican Party truly stood on principle I would have no issue with our support of it. This is clearly not the case, all you have to do is look objectively at this stuff and you realize how awful they are, add to that Christian talk radio that distort and cover up the actions of their political allies. Truth is not the quest, political defense is. This is what I mean when I say both the evangelical community and the political conservatives sold their souls to the devil when they merged 30 years ago. I have said a lot Greg, but I ask that you step out of the bubble, read views that you don’t agree with and see if you still think the same, especially in light of torture.
I want to share this couple of paragraphs from a book I am reading:
“I(Author) just rec’d an email asking if I would sign a petition protesting the use of torture to get information from enemy soldier caught in battle. This issue is current being debated among politicians.
There’s a debate about this? This issue isn’t just what torture does to the person being tortured, It’s what torturing does to the person doing it. We’re already in trouble when people debate the use of torture as if it’s only about what it does to the enemy.
Our own humanity is at stake.”
I agree but I also think it is more corporate in that is destroys our value as a society. To hear my Christian friends defend this truly blows my mind. I wonder if they would feel the same if the Dems had been in control and were the ones torturing??? Hmmm
To sum, I encourage being neutral while having values intact. Effect society more than just once every 4 years, call out those who you voted for when they are wrong, stop defending wrong actions because it is something the other side is complaining about. The left can be right on occasion.
Hey Jeff,
I know we called a truce, but if you could indulge me with just one more comment, which I hope will be a positive one. I know you do not support the Republican or Democrat Parties and I totally understand why. I already discussed what it would take to build a strong enough third party to challenge the two-party system, so the question is now, what direction do we take in order to reclaim what has been lost over the last 60 to 70 years? Why not work to reclaim the Republican Party and vote guys out that are too cowardly to stand up to the Democrats or even their own president when they are wrong, like with this bailout debacle. The problem has been many of the Republicans TALK a good conservative game, but they are too afraid to actually govern that way. Hence, the status quo never changes, except for a long slide to more government control of every American’s life. Is it going to take a lot of work? It sure is. Is it worth the effort? You bet!
Ok, let’s take out the Diamond Match box, pull one out, strike the side, and hold the flame to the wick. Then let’s repeat and the darkness will not be able to hide!
Greg, the ranking in priority is something I’ve seen all my life in our circles, and I think it’s wrong and more often than not ends up as mere lip service to a side thing we call “charity” when it’s the essence of kingdom living.
Telling other people about it (especially after we have shown mercy and compassion to them) is important; even moreso showing those who believe how to follow Jesus.
Scot McKnight has recently been blogging on the gospel/good news on his site (www.jesuscreed.org), and today’s entry was timely – here’s an excerpt of his thoughts on Luke 16:16-17 and Matthew 11:11-15:
“There’s a basic timeline here: Law/Prophets –> John and Gospel of Kingdom: Met by opposition
“We learn something here: the “gospel” is something Jesus sees originating in some important sense with John the Baptist, which draws us back to Luke 3, where John’s preaching and calls to repentance (concrete economic transformation) are sketched. This gospel in some sense turns history from the adequacy of the Law and Prophets. Kingdom gospel preaching encounters opposition by those — like Herod Antipas who decapitated John — who hear it and resist it. That preaching involves economic justice and moral transformation (Torah observance is what John used against Herod Antipas).”
The whole series is worth checking out. I’ve said my peace on this – peace out.
b/Bo,
I think your points are what Jesus meant when He said “Love your enemies.” My point is not disputing yours, it’s just a ranking in priority. Not in importance.
Jeff,
You’re a gentleman and a scholar. Excellent debate, my friend.
Thanks Greg, for the response, I think we both said our Peace on the issue. we don’t need to hash this out any further.
I wish I could help you see. Jesus did good even to people who did not appreciate what he had to say or even what he did. He healed people and told them to not say a word yet they ignored him and talked it all over town. Jesus healed ten lepers and only one came back to thank him. Jesus did all sorts and kinds of good to people, and talked about how God himself “rains upon the just and the unjust”. Paul himself says it is the “goodness of God that leads us to repentance”.
All of this goodness, what you call “charity”, is the very good news of the kingdom Jesus proclaimed as he read from the scroll in the synagogue. “Evangelize” is just a transliteration that means to proclaim the (good) news; it is proclaimed in word and in deed.
Yes, for one to enter this kingdom there is a narrow gate (check the passage, this is not about heaven, it’s about the kingdom). For one to embrace this kingdom is to die to self, to lose your life, to take up your cross. Or, to use Jesus’ own words, “BELIEVE”. The Jewish concept of belief is intrinsically tied to action (unlike the Greek mindset that lets people mentally assent to something that they never act upon).
IF you BELIEVE Jesus and what he said and did, if you really believe he is THE way and THE truth and THE life, then you’ll show it by your actions (that is, you’ll do the works that Jesus did and even greater works). You’ll of course proclaim the good news that new life is available to all…at a cost. And you’ll live that new life, which is evidenced by what you do to “the least of these”, just as Jesus and his disciples did.
We do good because that’s what people in God’s kingdom do. We tell people about this kingdom because we believe it’s the best way to live, and we don’t make any bones about the fact that it takes a radical change of mind and heart, but it’s WORTH it (especially since the old strategies could never possible work).
Our greatest commission, the one that Jesus actually gave is to make disciples – that includes talking about and demonstrating what Jesus himself actually did (and “charity” is too small a word for that). Jesus said that it includes “teaching them to DO EVERYTHING I commanded you”. The goal of the disciple/apprentice is to become just like the master so that they can make more disciples who do what the original master did. And what did Jesus do? WAY more than dying on the cross as a ransom, a substitute, a propitiation, an example, etc. He actually healed, forgave, taught, encouraged, challenged, and restored people. He actually did good, even to those who didn’t get it.
And the ones who didn’t get it the most? The self-satisfied religious folk who couldn’t fit what he was saying into their neat little boxes. They are the ones who paid their tithes, kept the laws, but did not execute justice and mercy. He frustrated them so much that they conspired with the empire to have him done away with. But he won’t go away. His message won’t go away. And in the end the ones who should have been closest to entering the kingdom are the ones left outside.
Ben,
“Men still love darkness instead of light. Everybody loves charity, but they don’t want the whole package.”
Right on the money, my friend. They hated Christ then, they hate us now. We are commissioned to preach the Gospel to every creature. It is only through the conviction of the Holy Spirit that men’s lives will be changed. We do acts of charity because we are commanded, but our greatest commission is to evangelize and let the Holy Spirit do the converting. Thank you for your insights.
b/Bo … well … when did I say that we shouldn’t have compassion on people? Greg also has to repeat it in every post as well : “charity and evangelism are not mutually exclusive”.
John 3:18,19 states:
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.”
Men still love darkness instead of light. Everybody loves charity, but they don’t want the whole package. And that’s all we keep arguing here. You can’t have one without the other: you can’t have charity without evangelism; in the same way, you can’t have evangelism without charity.
James had it right:
“What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. ”
True faith produces good deeds; but the reverse is never true: good deeds will never produce true faith.
Later, James concludes:
“Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.”
Again, the same theme: do not ignore the heart; it is the most important thing. Fix your relationship with God! Everything else will come as a result.
Ben, you’re the “world” (as a system) is set here against the victims of war, the “lost sheep” that we’ve been sent to rescue. Jesus came to seek out and to save/rescue/deliver/heal the lost – and he did exactly that. It’s holistic. “Jesus had compassion on them”; so should we. You seem so focused on the world “running us off” and all the negative things like pain and suffering and evil, etc. It sounds very bitter, very hopeless, very despairing. Doesn’t sound very “abundant”, just sounds like you’re waiting to die to get some relief. I’m sad for you.
Exactly, b/Bo …
The world loves “kindness” … but they detest the name of Jesus.
The world wants us to shut up about Jesus, but they also want us to help. And if the world had a choice, they’ll do what they did back then … run us off.
Remember Matthew 9 ?
1Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” 3At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!” 4Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins….” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.
Jesus knows what we need … that’s the problem with people that bring their agenda to Jesus … Jesus is not following our agenda … He goes to the root of it all. There is no bigger miracle, no bigger love, no bigger mercy than the miracle of grace in people’s hearts.
Well Jeff, here we go. Some of this may sound a little snarky, but I think you know me well enough to know that it is nothing personal. But be prepared for a wild ride!
GR: “Second, if you do believe in the concept of just war, please give an example of a just war and how it differs from the Iraq war.”
JB: Say it ain’t so Greg, WWII I would say was more just than this one, we had public buy in, and we had a draft. I don’t think all aspect constitutes the Just war theory but it does more than this one does.
GR (Response): That didn’t answer my question, Bro. I was looking for a direct comparison between the two, showing why one was just and the other not so much. I am glad that you do acknowledge the concept of just war, though.
JB: I want to address the idea of Obama and his “Muslim” connections. What a sad state we are in when we are performing religious tests for office. Personally, I have read enough of Obama to know that he is not and to insinuate that he is seems more like a right wing attack than substance.
GR (Response): Yeah, this could be a little over the top, but I do find it curious that when he was interviewed by George Stephanopoulos, he referred to his Muslim faith, and was quickly corrected by Stephanopoulos “Christian faith.” It’s just curious because most of us would never make that kind of a gaff on something that is supposed to be so important in our life.
JB: But here is the point, we as Christians ONLY care about a person’s worldview and nothing is more evident than Sarah Palin.
GR (Response): I got no problem with that. Worldview is the foundation from which a person’s actions stem. We certainly know how she stands on the issues. So what’s the problem? Honestly, I’m puzzled at your opposition to Sarah Palin. I know your disgust with McCain, much of which is deserved, but I just don’t get it with Palin.
JB: This lady cannot answer questions when put on the spot, she capitulated and dodges the answers, in the debate she added nothing of substance, only pithy rehearsed phrases, yet we LOVE her.
GR (Response): So she stays on message. Let’s shoot her. Come on! We all know that the press holds all Conservative Republicans with distain. Sweet little Katie Couric has been skewering Republicans for years. If liberal reporters would just admit that they are biased, I would have no problem because we could then at least know that they are honest and consistent with their reporting.
JB: Why, she thinks about God the same way we do.
GR (Response): Sounds pretty good if you ask me. It’s about time somebody did.
JB: It matters none whether she has the means to run this country.
GR (Response): Well, she ran the state with the richest energy resources in the nation, beating the “good-old boy” network within her own party to win the governorship, negotiated a massive natural gas pipeline with Canada in order to supply the lower 48, and all with an 80% approval rating which the last time I checked was at least 3 times higher than the President and Congress combined!. If this ain’t leadership, I don’t know what is!
JB: And here is why I think that our involvement in politics hurts us. We are used for our votes, and let me get this straight, no party is innocent. The Dems do this with African Americans.
GR (Response): No argument here. Glad to see you have at least MENTIONED the Democrats. (Can anyone say Fannie Mae?)
JB: I am of the opinion that all Americans should stop putting their flag on this or that side (GR: Nothing wrong with this) and hold all politicians accountable for their actions.
GR (Response): Amen. But how do we do this? Cursing the darkness is easy. Lighting candles is hard.
JB: This administration and the Republican Party have been involved in many scandals and illegal action over the past 8 years. (GR: And the Democrats have not? I know this could be a tu quoque argument, but it does deserve some consideration!) Why is this, it’s because they are politicians and they are liars and cheats. (GR: Just like all of us! V8 moment!)
GR (Response): I do believe that it is worth noting that if there is proof of scandal, don’t you think the Democrats would have exploited it for all it is worth? This has been modus operandi for the Democrat Party at least since 1994 (it has actually been a whole lot longer, but after the Republican sweep of 1994, it just became rabid!)
JB: Yet, our Christian leaders who make their bed with the Republican Party step aside and let it happen.
GR (Response): Saying that Christian leaders “make their bed” with the Republican Party is also just a little over the top, wouldn’t you say? Maybe “blind faith” is a better characterization. I can agree with you more at that point.
JB: Do they call out GWB on his inhuman use of torture? No, they make excuses for it or flat out deny it blaming it on the left wing liberal media.
GR (Response): If you are specifically referring to “waterboarding,” this technique has been used to prevent numerous terrorist attacks that were planned in the aftermath of 9-11 but because of the confessions of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, admittedly brought about by the use of waterboarding; many thousands of lives were spared. Mohammed confessed to masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the Bali nightclub bombing, as well as many more successful and failed attempts of terrorism. Mohammed was an unlawful combatant and did not have the same rights afforded to prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions. Should this technique be used haphazardly? Of course not. But when many innocent lives, both here and abroad are spared because of the information we gather though some interrogation techniques, I would say we are better off for it.
Just as an aside. Does the name Daniel Pearl mean anything?
JB: Folks, that is why the world looks at us and hates us, it has nothing to do with being Christ like.
GR (Response): I think you need to check your history, Jeff. I remember that in a previous comment you mentioned the Crusades. The first Crusade was called in 1095 by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont as a defensive action against centuries of Islamic aggression against Christians in the Middle East. Specifically check out the siege and conquest of Jerusalem in 638, which is generally considered to be the beginning of jihad. Throughout the next 4 and half centuries, The Muslims terrorized both Christians and Jews throughout the Middle East. This is the spawning of their hatred.
JB: BTW, I want to state my position on the two-party system in this country. I think both are basically one in the same. They both have their carrots that they put in front of the public to get their votes and do nothing about them; it’s called a wedge issue. They use wedge issues to keep the lemmings coming back to keep them in power. I don’t think all in government are like this, I do think we have a class system in our government and we have leaders on both sides of the aisle that have sold us out.
GR (Response): Like I said before, we need some candles here! What can we do to change it? And are we willing to put in the work involved to turn this behemoth around? Or are we just gong to flee to our hidden bunkers and ride out the storm?
JB: This is why a bailout package gets passed so quickly even though true conservatives and true liberals and most of Americans are against it.
GR (Response): No argument here, my friend!
JB: Once you recognize that GWB, Cheney and the leaders in the Congress are all on the same page you understand how this can happen
GR (Response): Ditto!
JB: Is it conspiratorial, yes, but we need not run away from the word conspiracy because they are what help us understand and accept secret dealings and back door agreements. I am not an Alex Jones type, but I do think that we all need to recognize that there are individuals in both parties that have a lot of power that don’t care at all what we think, they just want you to pull the lever for them once every 4 or 6 years. Sometimes even pulling the level the other way doesn’t even work in the case of stolen elections, don’t be so naive to think that computerized election systems can’t be hacked, I have seen testimony from the programmers themselves stating how easy it is.
GR (Response): I’m glad to know you are not an “Alex Jones type.” We would have had to special order you an aluminum foil hat! The reason conspiracies are so hard to proof is that too many details have to fall completely in line in order for the conspiracy to succeed. It’s a perfect example of the “Peter Principle” in action. Still not convinced of “Total Depravity?” Just asking…
JB: Also, getting back to the Muslim issue, we need to stop thinking of them in terms of the terrorist, 99.999 percent of them are peaceful just like us. And don’t tell me what the Quran says about killing the infidel because our own text has a lot of the same in it. Crazies can look at either text and pull out justifications to do insane things.
GR (Response): What is your source regarding the attitudes of 99.999% of Muslims being peaceful? I know there are peaceful Muslims out there, but they certainly are not in the leadership of most of the countries in the Middle East. You are also absolutely right that crazies can look at either the Bible or the Qur’an and justify anything but when was the last time you ever heard of a Christian suicide bomber?
Jeff, we have spent a lot of time on this issue and I realize that it is important to you and that is why I have given a lot of time to discuss it with you. I am grateful to you for challenging my views regarding the war because it has made me search deep as to why I am in favor of it and what I found is that no matter what anyone in Washington says or does, I am confident that I have a clear conscience in my convictions. I also think you know me well enough to know that just because we disagree does not mean that I have any less respect for you, your views, and your ability to reason through an argument. I am officially calling a truce in order to get some work done and write about things that I truly care about on my own blog (This doesn’t mean that I don’t want your response to the specific questions I have raised. I really want to know the answers to those questions). Thanks for the exercise and I pray that you will continue to seek the Lord and continue to grow in awe of Him.