Tonight at 11:30 pm ABC’s Nightline will air the debate between Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort (representing theism) and members of the Rational Response Squad (representing atheism). The video of the debate will be available online at ABC’s website after 1:00 pm today.
The Paul Edwards Program
Recovering the Christian Mind
I would recommend the following short essay by AW Pink:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pink/godhood/
few quotes:
“The Godhood of God! What is meant by this expression? Ah, sad it is that such a question needs to be asked and answered. And yet it does: for a generation has arisen that is well nigh universally ignorant of the important truth which this term connotes. That which is popular today in the colleges, in the pulpits, and in the press, is the dignity, the power, and the attainments of man. But this is only the corrupt fruit that has issued from the Evolutionary teachings of fifty years ago. When Christian theologians (?) accepted the Darwinian hypothesis, which excluded God from the realm of Creation, it was only to be expected that more and more God would be banished from the realm of human affairs. Thus it has proven. To the twentieth-century mind God is little more than an abstraction, an impersonal “First Cause,” or if a Being at all, One far removed from this world and having little or nothing to do with mundane affairs. Man, forsooth, is a “god” unto himself. He is a “free agent” and therefore the regulator of his own life and the determiner of his own destiny. Such was the Devil’s lie at the beginning – “Ye shall be as God” (Gen. 3:5). But from human speculation and Satanic insinuation we turn to Divine revelation.”
““In the beginning God.” This is not only the first word of Holy Scripture but it must be the firm axiom of all true philosophy – the philosophy of human history, for example. Instead of beginning with man and his world and attempting to reason back to God, we must begin with God and reason forward to man and his world. It is failure to do this which leaves unsolved the “riddle of the universe.” Begin with the world as it is today and try to reason back to God, and what is the result? If you are honest of heart and logical of mind, this – that God has little or nothing at all to do with the world. But begin with God and reason forward to the world as it is today and much light is cast on the problem.”
It can be watched here:
Pt 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woXuAk9pDY
Pt 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf39FK89s5w
or just use Google video
To quote Clint Eastwood in “Space Cowboys”.. ‘what do you say we set the nose down”.
Have we come to the point in our exegesis attempts that we can only refer to a google search to discover what we are discussing?
How can a common man understand, or better yet, how did anyone know what God was saying prior to the computer age? With my training and years of reading publication after publication, I still find Van Til a difficult read, however stimulating… Thats not all, try William Cunningham, Nathan Rice, Hedge, Dabney, Shedd and numerous others for a exercise in mental abuse!..
How is a common man to come to the knowledge of the truth as a child if it requires a PHD to comprehend the lesson?
I am one grateful servant that my Lord did not set the table at this level and expect me to digest it.
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
To the average man apologetics is what you do when you are sorry for something.
Exegesis is when you leave a place, and presuppositional is akin to a medical treatment (suppository).
Please do not interpret this as a criticism of this or any other forum of discussion, but rather a plea to remember to come back down to realism when we leave this arena.
I enjoy this blog. It is challenging and a source of fruitfull thought, so please keep it coming.
“Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting, get understanding”
Proverbs 4:7
One more quote;
“Hey Boys! What ya up to”
Dr John Rawlings (circa late 70s)
Yeah Mike, that was the first site google showed me. I found some info on it. The churches that I have been a part of have not been into agologetics because they are more experienced based. As I learn more(of course I feel I know less) I because less on experiance and more on biblical truths. Maybe it is all the Paul Edwards that I listen to 🙂
For more basic info on presuppositional apologetics, you can view the wikipedia info on it with a search. Tons of info and links there.
Look forward to talking more Jeff.
“I think presuppositional apologetics goes down a path worth exploring. (Van Til, Frame, Kuyper)
”
One thing about Christianity it sure and offers someone the ability to think deeply. I don’t have a clue what presuppositional apologetics is…..
Mike, I read your post, I don’t have a lot of time to comment. You make a lot of interesting points. I will bookmark your blog and visit it, good stuff.
I’d quickly like to clarify that I do not think that faith in Christ and an understanding of a kingdom worldview is non-sensical. Quite the contrary–I believe there is consistency not found in other belief systems.
I think presuppositional apologetics goes down a path worth exploring. (Van Til, Frame, Kuyper)
Now is the time for prayer! We should petition God for assistance during the debate (to strengthen and direct Kirt and Ray). We should also pray for the salvation of unsaved viewers. There will surely be the opportunity for Kirk and Ray to share the Gospel message. Who knows how many of the unsaved will be watching the debate.
Hey all
I think we’re heading down a path we don’t want to go when we claim we follow Christ because it ‘makes the most sense.’ That, in great part, was the major weakness in Comfort’s approach.
Anyway, I put most of my thoughts down in recapping this Nightline deal on my blog if anyone cares to read.
I watched much of the show (will finish later) I have to say the atheists won. what a shame, First Comfort is supposed to “prove” God exists without the Bible, then he quotes scripture. what they should have said is that BOTH sides require a certain degree if faith. If Comfort is right, then those who don;t agree could lose their soul forever, if the aitheists are right then so be it, nothing happens when you die. Both require faith, I reason that we are not here by accident a careful look at life proves it for me. So if I believe that then how did we get here? Some will say Aliens, some will say God. I choose God, looking at all the faiths I think Christianity makes the most sense there for I yield myself to Christ and thankfully praise him for his acceptance.
BTW Paul, I look forward to the Guest that you will have on today William Lane Craig and Phil Johnson.
One last thing on the debate, it was clear that the Atheists did their homework on Comfort and Cameron, Maybe Kirk and Ray should have done the same with their counterparts.
Perhaps, instead of Ray Comfort, Ron Comfort would have been more adept.
I found an additional video that is a bit over 6 minutes as well. Kirk Cameron mentions that they can prove the existence of God without faith.
Scientific proof, they said.
Wow—
I watched the brief 2 1/2 minute clip they had on the ABC site. I’ll record the full feature tonight and watch it. What I’ve seen so far was not so good and was typical of Christian apologetics in that it attempts to tell people to believe what they’re saying “because the Bible says…” More when I watch the full deal.
Just for edification, Enjoy!
HALLELUJAH, TIS DONE!
“This is what He has promised us-even eternal life” 1 John 2:25
Philip P Bliss (1883-1876)
A minister from England, in telling of a certain meeting, says: Among the converts was a man somewhat advanced in years, who was very anxious about the salvation of his wife, and expressed a wish that I should visit her. I did so repeatedly, and explained to her in very simple words the plan of salvation, but she could not comprehend the meaning of my message. Every time I left, however, she would express a strong desire that I return. One day I went in just before dinner, and talked to her about Jesus, but no light seemed to dawn upon her mind. Then the thought struck me to sing something to her, and so I commenced, “Tis the promise of God, full salvation to to give.” When I was through the chorus, she exclaimed ‘Sing it over again.’ I did so time after time, and when I asked her to assist me, she joined in very heartily. The light dawned on her dark mind while we were singing, the big burden of sin was removed from her heart, and her face was lighted up with holy joy as she exclaimed ‘Hallelujah,’ tis done! I do believe in the Son; I am saved.’ Just then her husband walked in for his dinner, and she shouted out to him, ‘Ah lad! !’ve got it! Hallelujah! ‘ tis done!’ Their hearts were full of joy over the wonderful discovery she had made, and I was grateful to God for a sinner brought to Christ by the ministry of holy song.”
copied
This should be interesting. The Ray Comfort Ministries are correct in sounding the alarm as to the failure of the church to retain it’s converts. As to why, is always a matter of discussion that we as Christians should engage. I will be watching to see if Ray is allowed to articulate. It is obviously a stacked deck.