Bob Young has been my friend for nearly 35 years. He’s been the kind of friend that I have never felt compelled to agree wih 100% just so that he will remain my friend. In plainer words, ours is the kind of friendship where openness and honesty are the elements used as the “iron sharpens iron.” He challenges me and stretches me mentally and spiritually. He shared the following with me, and I’m sharing it with you with his permission.
GUEST BLOGGER: Bob Young
He was born in the summer of his 27th year
Comin’ home to a place he’d never been before.
He left yesterday behind him,
You might say he was born again,
You might say he found a key for every door.
John Denver
“Rocky Mountain High”
For me it was the autumn of my 46th year. It was a culmination of decades of learning and unlearning, a new beginning of sorts. A portal was opened to a new dimension of living, like walking into an ordinarywardrobe, clawing past the fur coats, and finding myself in Narnia. Shivering in the Narnian winter, clueless, alone, afraid, yet very much alive and very much full of wonder.
I was only part way through Rob Bell’s book “Velvet Elvis” when this shift started and this doorway opened before me. So much of what I had been taught for decades, entire schools and systems of biblical understanding, were being shown for the inadequate, inaccurate, man-made things they were.
And it all resonated deep within my heart – what I was reading was making so much more sense than the empty explanations I had heard all my life. It clicked with reality.
It started with simple things like “binding” and “loosing”. Rob discussed how scripture by its very nature had to be interpreted (something the rabbis knew for quite a long time). Some rabbis had very strict interpretations for passages in the Torah, while other rabbis were more lenient in how to apply it. In the end, however, the goal was to actually DO what the scriptures commanded, and the question was how.
When a rabbi forbid an activity, he was said to “bind” it; when he allowed the activity, he “loosed” it. The collection of the rabbi’s interpretations of what is “bound” and what is “loosed” in scripture was called the rabbi’s “yoke”. For anyone familiar with the book of Matthew in the New Testament, bells should start going off in your head, because the rabbi Jesus used these very terms with his apprentices.
He talked about how his “yoke” was easy, and later told his apprentices that they had the power to “bind” and “loose” (which they exercised in the book of Acts).
In some mysterious way, the apostles’ interpretation of scripture (which at that time consisted of Genesis to Malachi) had authority on earth AND in heaven. They partnered with God to determine what is allowed and what is not allowed. And if you look at their determinations in Acts, there were only a few things they bothered to “bind” or “loose” (though these days there are many who love to bind).
Anyway, that simple explanation from a Jewish historical context was mind-blowing to me. It made me wonder what else I had been taught wrongly simply because my teachers did not know (for one reason or another) the actual context of the passage, what the terms really meant to the speakers and hearers.
Rob included a number of concepts that he had learned from Ray Vander Laan, Dallas Willard, and other teachers – many that I had been exposed to for years – and brought out new perspectives and angles I had never heard before. I felt ashamed and excited, dumb and enlightened at the same time.
But the most devastating blow to my old way of thinking came as he gently addressed a common, glaring error in interpretation that is one of the key stops along the old “Romans Road”. I originally memorized the verse in the King James Version, and it went like this:
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
Romans 10:9
The English Standard Version of the scriptures translates that passage as follows:
“… if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in
your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.”
Which, of course, meant that if I ask Jesus into my heart (perhaps confessing that I’m a sinner), and believe deep down inside that He as second person of the Trinity died for my sins and rose again, I have done a transaction that guarantees me an afterlife in heaven and an escape from the lake of fire. Right? But does it really mean that? Is that what the text really says?
When Paul wrote to the followers of Jesus in Rome, he was writing to a group of individuals who lived in the capital city of the civilized world. The military headquarters was there. The emperor was there… and he was considered to be a god. One of the requirements of Rome’s citizens was to honor him in ways that we’ve seen in the 20th century; where in Nazi Germany the people were required to shout with outstretched arm “Heil Hitler”, in Paul’s day Roman citizens were required to say “Caesar is Lord!” (whether you bought the whole emperor-god thing or not). If you wanted to survive, you said it.
Paul encouraged the followers of Jesus to participate in a dangerous and subversive activity – to go against the grain (at the risk of punishment or death) and say that Jesus, not Caesar, is the ruler. In other letters Paul reminds his readers that we are citizens of the kingdom of Heaven, not of the Roman Empire (though Paul gladly used his Roman citizenship to his advantage when appropriate). And the further you study the anti-Roman implications in Paul’s writings, the more you understand the subversive nature of his teachings and how he encouraged such a counter-cultural stand for God’s kingdom.
And what does the word “saved” mean in the context of Romans 10:9 if it doesn’t mean saved from hell and guaranteed access into an afterlife of bliss? Pretty much what it means in many other places in scripture when we use the synonyms “delivered”, “rescued”, and “protected”. Scan the Old Testament and you will see that over and over God delighted to rescue his people from danger. It’s the big story that his people get to gratefully recount to others – the various ways God came through for them in their time of need. Paul appears to be telling his readers don’t worry about taking a counter-cultural stand for Jesus as the king who rules over Caesar because Jesus will rescue them one way or another (either in this life so they can share their story, or they will be resurrected one day just like Him).
Wow. So what else have I gotten wrong? What else did my teachers not know, did not interpret (binding or loosing) correctly and accurately? And if it’s not about securing a good spot in the afterlife, what IS it about? For that, I had to go back to the teachings of Jesus himself…
Studying Jesus’ teachings led me back to the writings of Dallas Willard and his landmark book “The Divine Conspiracy”. Though I’ve read it twice before, I had completely missed the implications; perhaps I wasn’t ready yet. But as he discussed the failure of “gospel of sin management” to really foster Christlikeness and as he expanded on the brilliance of Jesus’ teachings that we call “the sermon on the mount”, my eyes were opened and my heart humbled and my spirit was shaken by the possibilities. And that led me to others who have been influenced by his writings, including Scot McKnight, Rick
McKinley, and Brian McLaren. It also led me back to John Eldredge who was an influence on me several years ago as his writings prepared me to live authentically and stop being a “poser”, in spite of the resistance. And that led me back to the songwriters I’ve come to love for their honesty and integrity…
Don’t forget to bring kindness
Don’t forget to say “thanks!”
Don’t forget to spend your love
Honey, you will not break the bank
Don’t forget to bring some empathy
For the saints and the sinners
Don’t forget to bring encouragement
Yeah, we’re all just beginners.
Bill Mallonee
“Bank”
That’s me – just another beginner, just another humbled, desperate soul trying to follow the way of Jesus. I hesitate to even call myself a Christian anymore because the term is so over-used that it can mean just about anything, which in the end indicates that it means nothing. And if it is supposed to mean “Christ-like” or “little Christ”, well, that ain’t me. But I’m trying…
Honesty is a hard attribute to find
When we all want to seem like
we’ve got it all figured out
Well let me be the first to say that I
don’t have a clue
I don’t have all the answers
ain’t gonna’ pretend like I do
Just trying to find my way
trying to find my way the best that I know how
Jason Wade / Lifehouse
“Trying”
It’s a world filled with doubts and questions. But I guess I’m not afraid of that anymore, because the God who created all of this and who has rescued (saved!) me time and time again – well, he’s not afraid of the questions either. And questions are exactly what inquisitive children are supposed to bring to their father. And it’s not that I don’t look forward to an afterlife with him – I do – but more importantly I look forward to his presence in my here and now every single day as I see his wishes become my reality. And I think puts me in a better position to be humble, perhaps like a child, as I seek to follow him in faith.
“There is none good but God.” And while it ain’t just a hat rack, I wouldn’t base it on my noggin.
I know the arguments about first cause and the interpretations of what it means to be “dead”, but I’m not going to argue about that or about “the moment when faith came” – it’s unprofitable. What is profitable is choosing to embrace the kingdom and follow our Rabbi Jesus.
2. When I chose to do what he said at cost to me and my dreams. However, this is not a one-time thing.
What caused you to make this choice? Are you just a really good guy? Or, perhapse smarter than the average bear?
Jesus asked Peter a similar question and said that if he did love Jesus that he’d feed Jesus’ sheep. The love (which also implies faith the he is who he said he is) is evidenced by action; faith without works is dead (just as works without faith is dead). So, to answer your questions:
1. Yes.
2. When I chose to do what he said at cost to me and my dreams. However, this is not a one-time thing.
3. The human kind of love of which you speak is not love at all, and what does my liking have to do with anything? He’s not a vending machine or a Santa Claus, he’s a master teacher (among other things) who shows the best way to live, which sometimes requires hard times. No pain, no gain.
Do you love Him more than others? When did you know you loved Him? Is it merely a human kind of love, one that will change if He doesn’t perform to your liking?
No, I happily exercise my free will to obey out of love and gratitude.
Actually Bob, He has commanded you to act in a specific way…Do you have a problem with that?
Perhaps like my friend Keith Schooley I am predestined to be an Arminian after all!
It’s only “error” if I’m essentially a marionette. But then that makes repentance and obedience absurd concepts, because in the end it’s “God pulling the strings”. Love without the option to not love is not love at all – it’s coercion or orientation, but not the choice of love. We love Him because He loved us, not because he pulled our strings. Thanks Nancy, you’ve helped me more fully reject Calvinism, and I honestly appreciate it. Go GOD!!!
…if he “commanded” me to behave in a certain way, I wouldn’t actually have to and it wouldn’t matter at all in the end because I’m chosen…
This is a statement of error…a heart that is so hard it wouldn’t eventually repent and obey…leaves question as to whether or not it is regenerated. Our will becomes enthralled in His love…repentance is brought forth and redemption is accomplished.
Thanks for the good vibes, Greg. As far as your response to my “why bother” question, that’s the initial response I thought of in reaction to the question, but that’s what led me to the absurdity of it. If God elected me before the foundation of the world and there’s nothing I can do one way or the other, then even if he “commanded” me to behave in a certain way, I wouldn’t actually have to and it wouldn’t matter at all in the end because I’m chosen. Or not. That is absurd.
But such is the case with man-made teachings. The early church didn’t bother with such concepts, and I suspect the Reformation, while partly having to do with theology, had more to do with power and money. I’m not saying Rome was right at the time, so don’t get me wrong. In the end, whether my will is bound or free, it’s a peripheral notion compared to the mission we’ve been given by Jesus himself, and upon that mission I will focus. 🙂
Jeff,
Whew! I’m sure glad God didn’t predestine me to be an atheist! 😉 Even though I am most definitely a Calvinist, I think another accurate portrayal of my worldview would be an anti-humanist (even that term may be too soft.) Bottom line for me was when I realized that God is God and not me. If He were to judge me and send me to Hell for all I have done in my life, He is more than just to do so.
Also, it is in the matter of salvation where I do not believe in man’s free will. By the way, it has only been within the last 2 years that my theology on this matter has changed. I was a free-willer as well but came to the conclusion that in the conflict between the Sovereign will of God and the free will of Man, Sovereignty wins every time or else God cannot by definition be God Almighty. It is on this point that I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence in Rick Warren’s “Purpose Driven Life” (and not very much else, but that’s another story!), “It’s not about you.” Amen, Amen, and Amen! The Bible clearly teaches that all of creation is for the Glory of God. Does this mean that man has no glory? No, it just means that even the glory of man is for the purpose glorifying God and not man himself. There is nothing good in us, and the only good that comes from us is that which has been imputed to us by the blood of Christ Himself.
Bob,
To answer your question, if you are a Calvinist, why bother? Well, the simple answer is that the Bible commands us to bother. Yes God has everything well in hand and His will will be realized, but the means that He has chosen to realize His glory and reach people for Himself is through us. Christ said that the reason He came was to “seek and to save that which was lost.” I had to come to the conclusion that if this is why He came, this is what I must be a part of as well. I had to ask myself these questions (thank you to Ray Comfort and Way Of The Master),
1. Do you share your faith regularly?
2. Do you go out of your way to verbally share the Gospel with strangers?
3. If not, is there a reason why you don’t?
4. What is the main reason you don’t share your faith more often?
Whether we are Calvinist, Arminian, somewhere in the middle, or even somewhere else, It is clear that Christ commanded us to reach the lost. Not with our clever theologies, but with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s interesting to me that before I was a Calvinist, I was too scared to share my faith. Now, I realize that I have nothing to lose and a whole lot of brothers and sisters to gain.
Why bother? I want to be involved in anything that gives Glory to God. Who He is and what He has done for Mankind and for me is more than enough reason to bother.
Bob, we’ve known each other a long time and having read this post for the first time, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and genuine faith in God. Having grown up in the same type of environment as you, I empathize with your struggles because I’ve had the same ones. Your comments are always thought provoking and challenging and just as our buddy Paul said, even through our disagreements, your honesty is the stuff that helps keep us both sharp (iron sharpens iron, or are we all just hard-headed? Just a thought… )
Anyway, keep thinking it all through and let’s all compare notes when we get together on the other side, maybe after we have taken about a million years just to praise Jesus for who He is!
Mostly God was upset with the Isrealites because the blatantly followed after other gods…burned their children in the fire to Molech…and had such a light regard for His instruction, that they were always losing the Book of the Law givin by Moses…How could they follow if they had no idea what they should follow…When the actual Book of the Law would be found and consulted…they would be cut to the heart, repent and return to the Lord…God’s Word was pivotal then and now.
Nancy,
I want to make it clear that I don’t think that Calvinism and Atheism are equal. Please don’t take that view. however, I do think that the way Bob presented Calvinism it could be interchanged with the worldview of an Atheist. I knew what I said might touch a nerve, it was not intended to offend, just an observation. Being a free willer I see many aspects of calvinism as wrong. I think it it very similar to the view of the Jews in the OT and all you see there is God correcting them for their mistakes and wrong assumptions.
BTW, my wife and I just put up our Chuck Baldwin sign in the front yard, ‘course we still have Ron Paul in our window and on our cars. 😉
Pixel…your post…priceless…as I read the first few words, I couldn’t help but think “What a nice boy!”…as I quickly scanned the rest…skipping over the cliches like stones across the top of the water… Coming to the “Atheist part”, I fell smack out in the floor and rolled over the Ron Paul poster (better check to see if yours is still in your window)…while holding my sides and trying to catch my breath…I’m sure I heard the words…if only in the faintest whisper…”repent, repent…” Since I am one of the elect…I considered not repenting at all…but, because I am one of the elect…I will repent…just not till later this afternoon….
Also looks like you got the me to God in the right place…*: ) Until #1 happens…the rest will not go well.
“Like McKnight says, the atonement works restoration in not just one, but four directions: me to God, me to others, me to self, and me to creation. Go God!”
Don’t think anyone here would have trouble with this statement.
Hi Nancy,
Nope, if you saw me you’d know that I definitely haven’t given up on lunch (or any other meal for that matter). 😉
And I’m not quarreling with anyone here, I’m just sharing what I believe the Spirit revealed to me en route (reminds me of C.S. Lewis’ story about being surprised by hope).
Now, I don’t choose to “bother” in order to earn anything from God – I do believe that he took care of my debts through Jesus’ sacrifice, as well as a host of other things accomplished in the atonement. I embrace his work and his way and want to be more like him and show his greatness and amazing works to everyone I can.
I want to “endure unto the end”, and at this point I think that will take actual effort on my part and grace on God’s part. I believe it is possible. I have seen too many men in my life who have not finished the race well, and I don’t want to be like them. Like McKnight says, the atonement works restoration in not just one, but four directions: me to God, me to others, me to self, and me to creation. Go God!
Nancy,
You are one of the few folks that I have had a discussion with that I disagree with completely and can respect wholeheartedly. You are gracious and thoughtful in disagreement. Greg Rice is another.
Bob,
I have had the same thoughts about Calvinism, often times the response when I ask these same types of questions of Calvinist and I get responses like “You don’t understand the doctrines of grace” or others where folks get very offended don’t answer my question and attack back. Brian McLaren writes about all the ‘isms that we have in our culture and religions framework and how there seems to be a spirit behind them. A type of groupthink, us vs them principality. One observation I want to make, and I want to be clear that I am not equating to the two but you could substitute Atheism with Calvinism in your previous post.
“I figured this was a good of a place to post this as any, since it’s logically connected to this phase of personal growth. I had an insight while driving to lunch today: “If Atheism is true, why bother?”
Having been a Atheist, I know all the stock replies. But stop and think about it deeply for a minute… if I’m matter only, then nothing I do good or bad matters, and if I am matter only nothing I do good or bad matters either. The nonexistent unmerited favor of God is either upon me or not. Why bother?
Sure, you could say “Live for the here and now.” or perhaps “Get all you can now” – but why bother? You’re in either way. Or you’re not. It’s absurd.
Atheism, a system built so tightly upon logic and reason (and explaining away things it can’t resolve), simply cannot provide a satisfactory answer to the question of “why bother?”. To me, that points to its falsehood.”
Not all of it fits but there is a lot that does, especially the last paragraph.
Hopefully you won’t take what I am going to say negatively…I keep hearing the words…quarrelsome spirit….Now we all get testy from time to time…that’s life! If we find ourselves in a perpetual state of quarrelsomeness…it might behoove us to check it out and ask the Holy Spirit to show us what is feeding it. We should…for the most part…be the happiest people on the face of the earth…really…I’m glad you decided to be Bob…He’s probably an alright guy!
I’m glad you went on to explain…I thought you were giving up on lunch…If you care so deeply about Jesus…I don’t think you have too much of a problem…If you believe who Jesus IS and what Jesus DID and have a sincere desire to serve Him and continue in His Word…It will all get sorted out by the Holy Spirit…sometimes we over think the situation…or the facts…it’s not that hard…just let Jesus love you for a while…on the other hand…you are correct…what is, is and there is nothing we can do to change it. We are all in the process of becoming like Jesus…last time I checked no one living had quite made it yet…We don’t have to be right all the time…God does that for us…He has placed His Holy Spirit in you…be still and listen…you won’t be disappointed.
I figured this was a good of a place to post this as any, since it’s logically connected to this phase of personal growth. I had an insight while driving to lunch today: “If Calvinism is true, why bother?”
Having been a Calvinist, I know all the stock replies. But stop and think about it deeply for a minute… if I’m not elect, then nothing I do good or bad matters, and if I am elect nothing I do good or bad matters either. The unmerited favor of God is either upon me or not. Why bother?
Sure, you could say “in order to honor God and be closer to Him and receive His blessings, etc., etc.” or perhaps “in order to avoid His displeasure and correction” – but why bother? You’re in either way. Or you’re not. It’s absurd.
Calvinism, a system built so tightly upon logic and reason (and explaining away things it can’t resolve), simply cannot provide a satisfactory answer to the question of “why bother?”. To me, that points to its falsehood.
Jesus and the apostles always addressed people as capable, responsible people. I think I’ll go along with that notion rather than by one formalized by folks a millenium and a half later. Born again again again… go GOD!
I was fourteen years old when I accepted Jesus into my life, or at least realized I wanted to do so…I believed in my heart that I needed Him and that He was willing and able to accept me and conform me into His image. An exchange of promises occurred that day…Father God promised to make me like Jesus, and I promised to let Him. Did I at this young age understand what that would mean over the next years (forty-six to date)? No…what I did know was I wanted to be like Jesus and was willing to start the journey.
It is very much the same in marriage…we fall in love and join our lives not really knowing or understanding the fullness of the commitment. The questions that follow are often difficult as two lives are melded into one. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to say there are no doubts, no challenges to belief in promises shared?? That just isn’t the human condition. What we can say, is that as we get to know our loved one, and choose daily to recommit and lay our lives down for each other, we are reassured of love’s endurance, if we will let it be so.
It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that brings the understanding of the character of God and the assurance of our eternal standing with Him through the Blood of Jesus. Once we get that part right…there is little room for the enemy to whisper “ Did He really say or mean…”
When we let the love of Jesus rule our hearts, He is the one who will through His indwelling Holy Spirit, answer the questions that come. I am as sure of that as the sunrise each morning. Do I have all my theology down with every i dotted and t crossed? Of course not.
1 Corinthians 13:12 (New Life Version)
New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
12 Now that which we see is as if we were looking in a broken mirror. But then we will see everything. Now I know only a part. But then I will know everything in a perfect way. That is how God knows me right now.
Michael Card, a favorite artist of mine, wrote these words that say it all:
Do You make Your presence known so often by Your absence?
Do questions often tell us more than answers ever do?
Could it be that You would really rather die than live without us?
Could it be the only answer that means anything is You?
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
I’ve found a Friend, who is all to me,
His love is ever true;
I love to tell how He lifted me
And what His grace can do for you.
Saved by His power divine,
Saved to new life sublime!
Life now is sweet and my joy is complete,
For I’m saved, saved, saved!
Let the redeemed of the LORD say so!
(every head bowed, every eye closed, etc, etc, etc.)
“And Judas went out and hanged himself.”
“Go thou and do likewise.”
Ain’t proof-texting great? 🙂
Tim
I likewise, am sure.~~ It still is quite simple,~~ after all these years.
How do I know?~~~
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
What is his will?~~~
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
How am I sure?
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Insert what you choose into the text boys, but if it is not what it clearly states, we are indeed of all men “most miserable”!
Much more than a prayer,~~ a transformation,~~ a regeneration,~~ Archaic? Perhaps, but as Sandy Loveday used to sing “I know its real”!
I was there when it happened!~~ I was an eye witness!
See ya at the last trump!
Tim – based on 1 Cor 15, you’re only “most miserable” if Jesus is not risen from the dead (which of course He IS). But if your hope is based on the work of praying a prayer almost forty years ago based on a bad interpretation of Paul’s letter to the Romans (based on an archaic translation at that), perhaps you are indeed miserable.
What might help you and the others who appear confused by my words is to honestly ponder the sources I pointed out – Rob Bell’s “Velvet Elvis”, Brian McLaren’s “The Secret Message of Jesus”, and Scot McKnight’s “Jesus Creed”. Then go back to scripture and study every reference to “gospel”, “good news” (perhaps “good/glad tidings” in the KJV), and “kingdom” and you will be amazed to see how consistently biblical these interpretations are. But then you will be faced with the choice of “obeying the gospel” or not, and you won’t be able to hide behind the prayers of a pre-teen anymore because “by their fruits you shall know them”. It’ll leave you feeling like…uh… a beginner again. Perhaps even “born again again”.
God is not the author of confusion. But it seems that the longer we live in this world and the more I investigate the things going on in christianity, the more confusing it all gets. I wonder who could be behind all of this confusion?
Here is what I am sure of: On May 3rd, 1970 I did what Romans 10.9 and many relating passages teach. If that is not what it “really” teaches then I am what another passage says I am…”most miserable”!
All this confusion really saddens me. Satan must be applauded for a job well done.
As Larry so rightly quoted…”even so come quickly, Lord Jesus” …and my I add “and send him to Hell where he belongs!!!”
That will end the confusion forever!!!
Larry Bartlett;
One of the most consistent men of the faith God has allowed me to encounter. My prayer and my love for you and Mary. It is my honor to have known you both.
Dear Brother Larry – there are so many places to start for me as well in responding to you… but then again, you addressed your reply to Paul, not me, so maybe I am out of place.
I feel bad for you in so many ways, and for now the main one is the pain that you must be going through personally and physically. May God provide the strength, comfort, and encouragement you need to endure this leg of the journey.
Maybe some day I can help you see how that it’s not that I’m confused, just (hopefully) humbled and less dogmatic about our Anglo-centric interpretations of God’s Holy Word, and (hopefully) more willing to spend the majority of my time trying to put it into practice the best I can rather than “preaching to the choir”.
Dear Paul,
I am not sure how to response! Bob’s “search” for the “genuine” doesn’t shock me. His use of a “counterfeit” bible {ESV} is interesting in his search for the “genuine” “article”. There are so many places to start – I don’t know where to begin!! If anyone has ever been “born again” by the Grace of God – they are “born again”. If they haven’t – they AREN’T.
I am going through “chemo” therapy {1/2 way through now} and don’t really have the “whatever” to get into all of this – but I would very much like to at a later date. Much of what Bob has learned he didn’t need to unlearn . . . some of the attitudes and emphasis. . . of those times – perhaps. It is obvious to me that some of the things he “unlearned” he needs to relearn! See – what I mean – it is too taxing right now – I sound as confused as Bob is!!! 🙂
Oh, well ….. even so come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Bro. Larry
At the risk of sounding critical, I still believe that when I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart the Lord Jesus – I will be saved from Hell and to Heaven – that is both Heaven in the Hereafter and Here on earth (John 10:10). That fits the entire context of what Jesus taught us that “he is not willing that any should perish” and a plethera of other verses throughout the new testament.
By the way Paul – the word Christian means “follower of Christ” and was first assigned to the disciples at Antioch in the book of Acts. I know of no one who is sinless (as Christ was) so that would negate anyone from being perfectly Christlike – but our task is to “strive for the masteries of the high calling of God,” i.e., try to be like Christ. But we are called Christian because we follow Him – not perfectly immitate Him.
I love to read illustrations and analogies as you gave above – relating to the actual circumstances the writing of the New Testament were speaking to in terms of Jewish Tradition or Church practices/prolems. Very interesting. For example – just in the previous Chapter (2) Paul was writing to the Roman Church regarding his “not-so-popular” opinion held by the Church in Rome. They in fact preferred Apollos over Paul and distrusted Paul due to his Jewish background and reputation. Yet Paul wrote to them out of Authority given to him by the Lord and began to deal with the issues that the church was dealing with.
Thanks for this post. Nice one.
http://www.elephantroom08.blogspot.com
S. Allen Sipe:
Thanks for your questions. I’m grateful for the finished work of Christ; however, I’m more focusing on the unfinished work of Christ – that which he’s doing in me and in others, and that which he gave us to do in the world. In that sense, I am indeed just a beginner (though I’m the same age as my buddy Paul). I’ve grown up in a tradition that found it easier to condemn than to truly love, easier to separate than to converse, and easier to excuse our unwillingness to do all that Jesus told us by taking scriptures out of context and using them as dubious “proof texts”; in breaking from that tradition, I truly feel like a beginner at kingdom living. And I have no guarantee that I’ll learn all the lessons that God is trying to teach me before I die, so in that sense I am indeed “trying to find my way the best that I know how”. Of course, that way is the way of Jesus – I hoped that would be implicit in my context; sorry if it wasn’t.
‘Yay, lets all base our hermeneutic off of the rabbis who killed Jesus’
-Rob Bell
I have a friend in my life just like Bob is to Paul. Lovingly disagree often, but both of us grow through the experience. This particular post requires more than one read, and I still cannot come away much edified. Interpreting scripture in context to time, place, audience, and social setting is a marvelously valid point, one I search for passionately in my studies. However, most of the verses in the quoted songs left me cold and searching for application to reformed Christianity. “We’re all just beginners” ? “Just trying to find my way” ? Where is the completed work of Christ? Where is the grace? I freely admit I may be missing something, and I welcome some correction or amplification.
For a more nicely formatted version of this, try this link: http://www.bobskyyoung.com/docs/BornAgainAgain.pdf