The following YouTube clip of a recent episode of “ER” speaks VOLUMES about the Emergent Church. Thanks to my friend Justin Hermiz for pointing me to it:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNuSBGa1mLM&feature]
The Paul Edwards Program
Recovering the Christian Mind
Oooooops – HERE’s the link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/february/11.35.html
BTW, Paul, here is a link that might help you to differentiate more clearly between those who label themselves as “emergent”, those we are “emerging”, and the universalist from ER (who later in that episode had her own crisis of faith). BTW, did you actually see the whole episode, or just the YouTube clip? I’m told by a pastor friend of mine that it was actually very compelling; I’d love to see it someday…
This video shows a universalist chaplain, not an emergent one. However, it’s my guess that emergents are pretty used to being caricatured by now. Straw men die so easily…
Shane, You are smart to see the distinction. However, leaders like McCarthur in all his piety criticize Driscoll as grunge christianity.
The blog owner is a big fan of McCarthur, I see him as arrogant. Of course Colin would ask if I am “certain” about that……
Iggy,
I can’t stand William Lane Craig mainly because he promotes a Roman Catholic Doctrine known as Molinism in his apologetics, and in his attempt to resolve the ‘problem’ of God’s soveriegnty versus human responsibility. I have never read anything by him. I choose to defend the faith at the level of epistemology and presuppositions and I’m sorry but until you show me otherwise your views on “uncertainty” can be summed up as was shown. No Christian who is schooled in Biblical Theology should think that he knows every. I certainly don’t. In the very nature of us being finite, whereas God is infinite, we will never know everything. Man’s fellowship with God throughout eternity will constantly involved new discoveries, understandings, and experiences of God and his Glory forever. However, nothing that we learn of God will ever contradict his prior revelations, because God by nature is immutable (cannot change). For example, we will not get into heaven and have God say, ‘See, there were other ways into heaven other than through Jesus isn’t this exciting! I just said that because it was all you would understand’. If you don’t believe that God can be infinite and yet express himself suffeciently to his creatures in a finite way, then not only are you denying God but you are also denying Jesus who came in the flesh and declared that if you have seen him you have seen the father.
Great video, I wouldn’t necessarily say it says volumes about the Emergent Church. It says volumes about postmodernism and moral relativism. While some branches of the Emergent Church movement are certainly in this camp (Emergent Village), there are others who are not (i.e. Mark Driscoll and Dan Kimball).
Colin, Your responses reminding of a William Lane Craig canned response to people who talk about uncertainty.
Paul Bahleda
Your testimony is moving. You have been to the well and drank. Tis refreshing is it not. His ways are past finding out. The only real pertinent question is “have you been to Jesus for the cleansing power, are you washed in the blood of the Lamb”? God bless you Sir!
Iggy,
‘I have learned to enbrace uncertainty’
Are you certain about that? Because if you are then you are not being 100% truthful. You have learned to deny and doubt the Biblical worldview
‘The ludacris thing about that concept is a fair reading of the actions of the deciples would indicate extreme amounts of uncertainty, and they had Jesus with them for 3 years’
So you are certain about this? The disciples did not understand because the Holy Spirit had not yet been given in it’s New Covenantal administration. However, it’s outpouring happened about 2002-2008 years ago next month and anyone claiming uncertaintly about basic biblical doctrines or truths today is a fullfillment of 2 Corinthians 2:14
‘But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. ‘
‘If you believe x,y and z, without question, then you will believe any number of other truth statements that come from the pulpit.’
And likewise if you deny any certaintly you are flying by the seat of your pants and will fall for anything just about anywhere if you are logically consistent. However, you obviously aren’t because you have come up with your own x, y, and z with which you absolutely deny the historic Biblical faith.
We all go through life with questions and uncertainty, this guy appears to need concrete answers. If we were all intellectually honest we can say we don’t know what will happen on the other side. I think that is the point that pixelmaster was making, in fundementalism it is more just to me more certain. In this scene the person wanting answers may have thought he had them at one time then came across information that contradict it? What do fundementalist do when that happens? Denial. It must be of Satan!. I have learned to enbrace uncertainty, I try to live my life the best I can as a christian but admit that I don’t hold the corner on truth. In many fundenmentalist circles the previous statment would be akin to selling my soul to the devil. Certainly is paramount. The ludacris thing about that concept is a fair reading of the actions of the deciples would indicate extreme amounts of uncertainty, and they had Jesus with them for 3 years. We have a book that was written many thousands of years ago, modified many times, yet fundementalist are told they need to be certain of x, y and z. I no longer buy it and I simple see the certainty claim as a method of control over the mind. If you believe x,y and z, without question, then you will believe any number of other truth statements that come from the pulpit.
I have been away for a while, yes, skeptimal interprets my comment correctly, I am referring to the patient who needs to be told what is correct to feel good about his future existence.
All I can do is share my experience. I am a 51 year old successful, fairly analytical man. I have a house in the suburbs a vacation home, two grown children and a 32 year marriage. Life is pretty wonderful for me at this point.
I am also an alcoholic. I spent thirty years of my life drinking heavily, the last five or so physically addicted to alcohol. I was afraid of everything. If I succeeded, people wanted more from me and that terrified me. If I failed, people criticized me and that terrified me. I could never find “enough” of anything. I cheated on my wife, I drank with my kids. I lied to my boss. I stole if I felt the need. I used to have a forty-five minute drive home from work and I would stop for a pint of vodka. I would drink it straight until there was maybe an inch left in the bottle and then on a dirt road on my way home I would throw the rest out the window. ( My wife couldn’t find the bottle in my car, and hey, if you drank a whole pint of vodka in forty-five minutes you were probably an alcoholic, right?) I will never forget a time when I had forgotten my wallet and didn’t have the funds to pick up that pint on the way home. I drove down that dirt road, stopped and picked up several of the bottles with an inch left in each and drank my fill. Then when I got home obviously under the influence and my wife accused me of having a drinking problem, I promptly insisted that she was the one with the problem about drinking. Knowing full well the whole time that forty-five minutes earlier I was on my hands and knees picking up three month old partial pints of vodka.
I’ve never declared bankruptcy. I’ve never been a street person or homeless. I’ve never been arrested for drunk driving. I’ve never even filed for unemployment. But I was a wreck. I tried counseling, self help books, antabuse (Man, do you get sick when you drink with that stuff in your system!) Nothing ever worked. Finally, of course, I crashed and burned. I spent three weeks in re-hab in the spring of 2002. The first Saturday I was at home alone after re-hab I knew I was going to drink. Did you ever have that feeling of knowing you’;re going to do something wrong and being unable to stop yourself? I had an innate understanding that if I started again I would drink myself to death. I knelt by the side of my bed and said, “Jesus, if you’re real you better step in now.” And bursted into tears. Not stoic man-type funeral tears. I swear I thought there was a donkey braying in the room. My nose ran, my breath hitched and I was having a difficult time breathing.
Let me re-iterate that I am an analytical man. I am not given to flights of fancy or self-hypnosis. Science has much more appeal to me than theology, but I felt hands on my face. Hands. Not a soft tingling or wisp of wind I mistaked for hands. I know what hands feel like and these were someones hands. My face was lifted up several degrees and I freaked out. I remember thinking “Oh,no! I asked Him to come, here He is and I’m done!” I was sure judgement day had come. You know what I heard? Not what I expected. I heard in probably the gentlest voice I have ever heard “Paul, I love you so much. I will never leave you or forsake you.” I heard that. I’ve never heard voices before or since. I was not a Bible reader at the time. The feeling was so overpowering that I am in tears now as I type. It was only sometime later that I realized those were the words of Jesus. I fell asleep for four hours and to this very day have not had a drink nor even the desire. I am not miserable or sad and I still have a hard time believing that I don’t drink six years later.
What has this to do with the Blog postings? Well, I see arguments based on the dangers of “fundamentalism” or “emergence” or “new age thinking”. Please let me share this. You can learn about God through ancient text. You can learn about God through discussion forums with others. You can deny God, or defend God or uphold God. But when you experience God, when the creator of the universe storms into your bedroom with the cavalry and saves you no questions asked simply because you gave up yourself and asked Him to, ER clips are interesting but not all that important anymore. I don’t know about logics, archealogy, eschatology etc. etc. but I do know I’m a new person. When I read Blog sites like this I feel like the blind son in the Bible who is challenged by the Pharisees to explain how he can now see. When he tells them it was Jesus they question wether he is the man who truly was blind that morning. They bring in his parents and ask “Is this your son? If so, why is he no longer blind?” They answer “He is our son but ask him why he can see.” The Pharisees again return to the blind man and tell him that Jesus could not have healed him because they know he is not a man of God. The blind man asks “How could a man not of God heal me?” When the pharisees go on to push the blind man he finally says ” Why do you persist? Do you want to become his disciples as well?” They throw him out in the street and tell him not to give them, the religous elite, instructions.
I know other people have quit drinking and made many other incredible strides in life without conversion experiences. Throw my testimony out in the street if you like.
All I know is the I was “Blind but now I see.”
Thanks,
Paul Bahleda
‘‘There may be a supreme being, but if so, that being has not inerrantly expressed itself through the Torah, the Bible, or the Koran.’
Also I think concerning this statement you have made it quite clear that the pre-conditions of your worldview will not allow such a God that is revealed in in the Old and New Testaments, not only because of his supernatural nature, but also because of the moral demands he places upon his fallen creation and the judgment that he exercises accordingly. Therefore, you are going to come at me with ‘contradictons’ in the Bible that you go looking for because you are less interested in the Bible making coherent sense than you are in finding inconsistancies within it. I will respond showing you how such verses are harmonized, and you will conclude that I am some deluded Christian trying to weazle my way out of the obvious. The same goes with any and all archeaological or historical proof for the Bible or the evidence of consistancy and fulfilled prophecy within the Bible. So does this leave us at a standstill where we have two subjective worldviews that can neither be proven nor disproven? Not at all, because if you were truly to examine such evidence objectively you would see that it stands up to scrutiny no matter how much the skeptics outnumber the believers. However, as I have already stated the preconditions of your worldview will not allow for such proof to be persuasive, so we must hammer this out in another way. And as has already been demonstrated your worldview depends upon the preconditions that my worldview provides for you, i.e. general revelation of the mind of God which gives you a metaphysical basis for Laws of Logic, Science, Morality and the uniformity of nature to ACTUALLY exist as abstract entities outside of our minds in an objective sort of way. So the burden of proof is upon you, not us.
Skeptimal,
‘There may be a supreme being, but if so, that being has not inerrantly expressed itself through the Torah, the Bible, or the Koran.’
Please provide evidence… Again however, I believe that your list of evidence will never be met because in your worldview the claims of the BIble are impossible and you are the self-suffecient determiner of such truth which leads me to the next point…
‘Nor do I think I *am* god. That’s just another myth put forward by religious people to explain why everyone who disagrees with them is evil. I don’t submit to the churches, so I must think I’m a god. No variation on this thinking is possible, is there?’
This reminds me a lot of what Catholics say concerning Mary. Because their out in the open lingo does not include the theological terminology that they consider Mary to be a Goddess, they then discount any claims that protestants make concerning them worshipping her. This is exactly what you, and many atheists do. Because you do not have the language or articulation of theism that you apply to yourself, you make the claim that it is nonsense that you are placing yourself in the position of God. However, your entire philosophy revolves around autonomy, that is that you exist and think inherently apart from any dependance upon God. You have life within yourself and all that you need inherently in your own mind to determine truth from untruth, good from evil, and even to pass judgment upon God. In a Christian theistic world such attributes belong to God and are imparted to man who is in his image, and any and all attempts to break from or deny God while retaining these blessings from him is an attempt to become ones own God. Such activity will result in God judging the intellectual realm of a society, just as it happened at the Tower of Babel and just as it is has happened with the after effects of post-modernism from modernism’s humanistic aims. I never made the ridiculous claim that atheists CANNOT think or come to rational conclusions concerning the world, rather they cannot justify such behavior because their worldview provides no preconditions for the existence of Laws of Logic, the uniformity of nature, Laws of science, and Laws of morality. Therefore, they are operating on borrowed capital from God to attack God. I still haven’t seen any real evidence against my worldview, and I have not seen a justification of yours. Your worldview is the latest on the seen, so the burden of proof is on you.
‘And as for values, it isn’t atheists and agnostics who have justified torture these past few years. It isn’t free-thinkers who STILL support an unnecessary pre-emptive war. We aren’t the ones who are okay with a president who breaks the country’s laws just because he’s a Christian. You people want to make a fertilized egg a full human being, but you fight like hell for the right to execute retarded criminals. Don’t insult the intelligence of the rest of us by suggesting you believe in absolute anything.’
I work in a Christian bookstore and hear people talk about politics all of the time. Never have I heard any Christian say, ‘O George Bush can do whatever he wants because he is a Christian’, in fact most Christians that I hear talk about George Bush are talking about dissatisfaction with him. When have we ever fought like ‘hell’ to execute a retarded criminal? When have I ever given you a reason to show I do not believe in absolutes? Again I never said atheists don’t believe in absolutes (the dignity of man, morals), they just cannot justify their existence.
I don’t watch ER really, but I have to say that maybe they just boosted themselves up a grade but showing a christian debate. 🙂 you know?
PE (thats Paul Edwards)for President
Phil 3:8-9
Jonathan CHolak
Colin
Really!
How vast is this well of “my experience”?
Colin,
You said: “In your mind the chaplain is in the right because she is autonomous and defines things by her finite understanding, whereas the doctor is in the wrong because he is desiring to submit his mind to a higher objective authority concerning morality, justice, and the answers to big questions.”
My point was that this was the wrong chaplain for this man, and that the fundamentalism Pixelmaster was talking about was this man’s need for someone to tell him what to do and what to believe.
You said: “Every time an atheist proclaims, “I MUST SEE LOGICAL AND RATIONAL PROOF FOR GOD” they are stealing capital from God (logic and reason) that would only be possible in a universe with God, to attack the very existence of God!”
Once again, Colin, you are responding to what you *think* non-theists believe rather than what they actually do. I don’t demand that gods prove their existence, but I’m not going to adopt a belief system which has been disproven. There may be a supreme being, but if so, that being has not inerrantly expressed itself through the Torah, the Bible, or the Koran.
Nor do I think I *am* god. That’s just another myth put forward by religious people to explain why everyone who disagrees with them is evil. I don’t submit to the churches, so I must think I’m a god. No variation on this thinking is possible, is there?
And regarding absolute truth: give me a break. I’m the one subjecting my beliefs to skepticism, not any Bible-believer I know. And as for values, it isn’t atheists and agnostics who have justified torture these past few years. It isn’t free-thinkers who STILL support an unnecessary pre-emptive war. We aren’t the ones who are okay with a president who breaks the country’s laws just because he’s a Christian. You people want to make a fertilized egg a full human being, but you fight like hell for the right to execute retarded criminals. Don’t insult the intelligence of the rest of us by suggesting you believe in absolute anything.
“In my experience, the most sincere believers in the inerrancy of the Bible are those who have *not* studied it.”
Again key words “my experience”.
Skeptimal,
‘There’s nothing wrong with the chaplain here, but this doctor is a man who needs to be told what to do and what to believe.’
And this illustrates exactly your pressupositions when it comes to just about anything. You assume human autonomy and self-suffeciency. In your mind the chaplain is in the right because she is autonomous and defines things by her finite understanding, whereas the doctor is in the wrong because he is desiring to submit his mind to a higher objective authority concerning morality, justice, and the answers to big questions. However, as was already demonstrated several months ago your atheistic and agnostic pressupositions are inconsistent with your scientific worldview. You still have not answered how in your Godless universe there can be universal abstracts such as cognitive laws (laws of logic), laws of physics, and laws of morality. Saying they are just there, is only begging the question. How can you justify their existence in your supposed atheist materialistic universe? You cannot, because we don’t live in an atheistic universe we live in a theistic universe and the presence of universal abstracts in our universe are due to the immanance of God’s thinking and mind in the world. Every human being is made in the image of God and therefore has a de facto knowledge and experience of Him (including you) that allows each individual to think rationally, logically, and conscientsciouly. However, due to sin and the lie of Satan (you will be like god), every human being is attempting the impossible… complete autonomy and is therefore suppressing the truth about God within them.
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.” Romans 1:18-22
The revealed truth of the Bible repeatedly reveals that this suppression of the knowledge of God leads to “foolishness” and a darkened understanding, hence why Psalms calls an atheist a ‘fool’. Not because he is uneducated or has a low IQ, but because he is attempting the impossible. Every time an atheist proclaims, “I MUST SEE LOGICAL AND RATIONAL PROOF FOR GOD” they are stealing capital from God (logic and reason) that would only be possible in a universe with God, to attack the very existence of God! The same goes when they call God “immoral” or bring up the “problem” of evil… distinct good and evil can only exist due to an absolute standard. This is why I believe if you look historically and sociologically at our culture, you can see how the prevalance of modernism and atheistic reasoning has led to post-modern despair because the former has undermined the metaphysical basis for any real truth to exist which has led to the latter. However, even the postmodernist who states there is no absolute truth is contradicting himself and making an absolute statement. Furthermore, if there was no absolute truth we should not be able to talk meaningfully about the subject at all… Do you see what has happened skeptimal? Man’s attempt to become autonomous and “like God” has left him with nothing and on the verge of insanity. In the end ALL truth is REVEALED truth. From logic, reason, and facts (general revelation) to the truths of scripture (special revelation), anything that can be accurately known by the finite creature is due to his dependance upon the infinite creator. You will not accept the revelation of scripture nor of nature, because not only does it disagree with your presuppositions (which are faulty) concerning the existence of the universe and yourself, but they undermine your attempt to become autonomous. Therefore, in your mind the chaplain is a ‘freethinker’ and wise, whereas the doctor is decieved, dense, and not able to think for himself.
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. 1 Corinthians 1:20-25
Hello ColinSamul,
Maybe I’m just slow or something, but I don’t understand the point of your illustration in the post 14 of this blog (March 13.08.). Fighting TO KEEP slaves in the 1800s WAS NOT a biblically sound initiative. Fighting AGAINST fundamental women’s rights in the 1900s WAS NOT due to sound biblical doctrine. Lastly, fighting against the civil rights of African Americans in the 1960s, like the other initiatives wrought by the hand of hypocritically, self-righteous, racist ‘bible totting bammas’, was not done out the reverence these so-called-Christians had in sound biblical doctrine or because their initiatives were “suppose to be” biblically sound. I don’t know if you are making a blanket attempt to lump all Christians into the same bucket by implying that because those who fought against others who wanted basic fundamental rights given to them claim to be Christian and clearly their initiatives were unbiblical, that all Christians think like they did and do what the did. Or maybe you were being sarcastic and that the last comment made regarding The University of Berkley, was to indicate your sarcasim. If it was the latter, please clarify, if the former, keep in mind that Lucretia Mott was a professed Christian who, with others fought vehemently against injustice in the early 19th century (e.g. 1821 anti-slave act). She used the word of God as her mantle. Dr. MLK was an ordain minister of the Gospel and pastor who fought against injustices in the 50s and 60s, using the word of God as well. I am truly not sure what you point is and it would be helpful if you would clarify your point. Thank you ColinSamul.
Peace,
Saranne
DC
Schuyler,
I may be wrong, but my impression is that Pixelmaster believes the way he does because he *has* studied the Bible in depth. In my experience, the most sincere believers in the inerrancy of the Bible are those who have *not* studied it.
This is a powerful clip, and well worth watching.
The example of fundamentalism that Pixelmaster is talking about is the sick doctor, not the chaplain. There’s nothing wrong with the chaplain here, but this doctor is a man who needs to be told what to do and what to believe. It’s the only way he can cope with his guilt. That is the essense of the fundamentalist, and if that’s the only way he can be comforted, she should have brought in someone else.
The flipside of this coin is the atheist or agnostic who is suffering from a fatal disease, and in walks the fundamentalist minister to take advantage of his suffering by pushing a false religion on top of it. Or the dying gay person whose family blocks the partner from offering comfort, even as the family insists his or her suffering is god’s judgment. Or the evangelical minister who proclaims a natural disaster to be god’s judgement on a community.
Different people are comforted different ways, and that is why this clip is so good. This man should be entitled to whatever type of minister can offer him the comfort he needs. That doesn’t mean that all chaplains should be fundamentalists, though. That wouldn’t work any better.
The only thing I can say about this is WOW. This is really provocative and nessessary in to day’s age. This clip speakes volumes. I have to email this out to my friends. BIG THANX for posting this. WOW!
Peace,
Saranne
There is ALWAYS a battle, in the 1800 biblically sound Christians fought to keep their slaves. In the early 1900 biblically sound Christians fought a woman’s right to vote, in the 1960’s it was civil rights, now it is abortion and gay rights. There is always something to fight for because we are “biblically sound”.
where’d you hear that? The University of Berkley?
Schuyler
Gracious! So much of discoarse today is rooted in anger. Refreshing!
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
Should our family ever regain this temperment we may become effective once again. God help us all!
Pixelmaster,
I supposed I knew my Bible,
Reading piecemeal, hit or miss,
Now a bit of John or Matthew,
Now a snatch of Genesis,
Certain chapters of Isaiah,
Certain Psalms (the twenty–third),
Twelfth of Romans, First of Proverbs—
Yes, I thought I knew the Word!
But I found that thorough reading
Was a different thing to do,
And the way was unfamiliar
When I read the Bible through.
You who like to play at Bible,
Dip and dabble, here and there,
Just before you kneel, aweary,
And yawn through a hurried prayer;
You who treat the Crown of Writings
As you treat no other book—
Just a paragraph disjointed,
Just a crude impatient look—
Try a worthier procedure,
Try a broad and steady view;
You will kneel in very rapture
When you read the Bible through!
—Amos R. Wells
I would like to encourage you to get into a good sound DAILY Bible study . . . and quite just haphazardly reading your Bible (if you’re reading it at all any more).
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? -Galatians 4:16
Pixelmaster, Quit looking to man . . .
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: FOR FLESH AND BLOOD HATH NOT REVEALED IT UNTO THEE, BUT MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. – Matthew 16:13-17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. -John 17:17
Pixelmaster,
We have already answered your so called “Old Testament evil god” many times, and all we get as a response is “I’ve heard those arguments”. Show me where the REAL contradictions are… The fact you cannot respond to these answers shows that you are not in an honest quest for the truth, because you continue to serve up the same old drivel as if it a legitamte reason to be an agnostic towards Christian truth.
I’m with you Mike!
Paul, I was driven to tears thinking this scene was likely played out today at any number of local hospitals. I understand that many hospitals have a tightrope to walk in this role hospital chapin. I pray God leads people in hospital enviroments to fill the gap with the Gospel regardless of hospital policy. We must be ready with the Truth everywhere.Thank you for this insight.
People who are dying need the truth, straight-up, unembellished. Whether this blows away the “emergent church” I don’t know. What it does is make clear that the vague “spirituality” that so many are attracted to has no power whatsoever!
I speak as both a cancer survivor and one who spends a lot of time visiting sick and dying people in the hospital.
Paul (and Justin), thank you!!!
This guy is half way there, Paul. He already knows that the “wages of sin is death”. He needs someone to tell him about the “gift of God” now. She couldn’t do it…and sad to say most “christians” can’t.
I usually do not say much, but this time I could not refrain. How in the world could someone watch this clip and only see “extreme fundamentalism”? Radical fundamentalism typically makes legalistic demands on others while normally being blind to the sin of self. This clip, by simply watching it and seeing what is right in front of ones eyes, is all about a person in pain. A person suffering from legitimate fear of ‘possible’ damnation. A person who has probably looked inside in an attempt to find some sort of expulsion of true guilt, and living in a culture that only wants him to continue looking inside. This clip is a beautiful expression of what lost mankind comes to when all the false, insipid, and powerless promises of a Christ-less Christianity try and provide answers to man’s most significant dilemma. This man is looking for forgiveness, and all the pretender on the other side of the bed could do is placate, when what he needed was someone to introduce him to Christ. Unfortunately Paul, this is not just a good example of Emergent philosophy, it is a great example of what is occurring all through the American evangelical church with countless thousands of professing believers who are more enamored by Joel Osteen than a man who holds to preaching Christ and the cross.
Fundamentalism?? The guy is asking some simple questions and this new age “chaplin” can’t provide anything but the “look within yourself” BS that new agers are so famous for. The answer he is looking for here is so simple, it’s a basic presentation of the Gospel and this woman didn’t have it to give. Praise God that this was shown on a show like ER.
P.S. Paul, I’d be careful about calling Justin a friend 🙂
Wow–
Well, then let me say, how does this relate the “Emergent” church? Paul, I was a fundamentalist for years man, I know the environment, the story, everything. I “knew” the “Truth”, until my eyes started to open to the blindness to reality that fundamentalism brings. I listen to Macarthur and he will make light of how crystal clear the Bible is. Sorry man, not that clear, the Old Testament is filled with contradictions and scriptures that simply make sure wonder if this is a God anyone would want to serve. Do I struggle with it yes, do I ask God what it’s all about, yes. Do I turn off my brain and accept what it told to me in an authoritarian way, no longer. This is the threat; this is why the church is so up in arms about what the EmChurch movement is doing. They are asking serious, well thought out question and not excepting the “Well God is God” answer that finishes many Q & A.
I ask myself, Why do Christians fight evolution? Do you realize it is the foundation of Biology and the Scientist all over the world would be very famous to prove it wrong. They try, but you know what, they can’t. Fundamentalism say in the beginning God(6days, 6000 years ago), I can agree in the beginning God, but not 6000 years ago. It takes true nonthinking to come to that conclusion.
Another issue I have with Fundamentalism is the constant fight. There is ALWAYS a battle, in the 1800 biblically sound Christians fought to keep their slaves. In the early 1900 biblically sound Christians fought a woman’s right to vote, in the 1960’s it was civil rights, now it is abortion and gay rights. There is always something to fight for because we are “biblically sound”.
If all you see is ‘fundamentalism’ Pixel, you provide more evidence of how blind you are and how desperately you need to have your eyes opened to truth.
The only thing this video shows me is the effect that extreme “fundamentalism” can have on a person.