MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O’Donnell was recently cross examined by Hugh Hewitt regarding statements O’Donnell made about Mormonism as a panelist on The McLaughlin Group. Here’s part of what O’Donnell said on McLaughlin:
On Big Love, the HBO series, that has been a real headache for Romney. Here’s the problem. He dare not discuss his religion. And he fools people like Pat Buchanan who should know better. This was the worst speech, the worst political speech of my lifetime, because this man stood there and said to you, this is the faith of my fathers. And you, and none of these commentators who liked this speech realize that the faith of his father is a racist faith. As of 1978, it was an officially racist faith. And for political convenience, in 1978, it switched, and it said okay, black people can be in this Church. He believes, if he believes the faith of his fathers, that black people are black, because in Heaven, they turned away from God. In this demented, scientology-like notion of what was going on in Heaven before the Creation of the Earth.
Hugh Hewitt accuses O’Donnell of anti-Mormon bigotry for those words. Hewitt defends Romney’s allegiance to the Mormon Church on the grounds that just because Romney is a Mormon doesn’t necessarily imply an endorsement on his part of everything his church teaches, in the same way Ted Kennedy or Rudy Giuliani are Catholics yet don’t abide by everything their church teaches.
There is however, a major difference, between the way in which Kennedy or Giuliani are Catholic and the way in which Mitt Romney is Mormon. The Catholic Church is ON RECORD as opposing politicians who profess to be Catholic while disregarding the Church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality. Show me one instance where the Mormon Church has ever declared Mitt Romney outside the lines of the theology of the Mormon Church on any issue.
The teachings of the Mormon Church are abberant on fronts too numerous to mention. Mitt Romney has declared publicly his allegiance to his Mormon faith without citing one point where he disagrees with his church, yet Hugh Hewitt’s passion for Romney has so clouded his judgment he continues to be an apologist for Romney, going so far as to suggest that, like Kennedy and Giuliani, Romney doesn’t agree with his Church on every point.
Kennedy and Giuliani are ON RECORD on the points they diverge from their Church. Where is Romney on record on the points he disagrees with Mormonism? No such record exists. The man believes the teachings of Joseph Smith in toto. For Hugh to suggest otherwise flys in the face of fact.
Every God fearing American ought to research the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. A man who holds to those teachings certainly is not disqualified from holding the office of president on that basis alone. But conservative evangelical Christians, who hold to the faith once for all delivered to the saints and who desire to defend that faith, had best ask themselves what a Mormon in the White House would do to elevate the profile of a false religion parading as Christianity. Dr. Albert Mohler recently wrote,
As an evangelical Christian theologian, I must clarify that Mormonism is in no way consistent with orthodox Christianity. It borrows Christian themes and texts, but its most basic beliefs directly contradict the central teachings of Christianity.
Mormonism holds that God is an exalted man, with a physical body. Christianity teaches that God is Spirit. Mormonism denies the historic Christian understandings of the Trinity, the person and work of Christ, and the doctrine of salvation. Christianity promises salvation through Christ’s atonement and the sinner’s justification by faith. Mormonism promises deification. Christianity calls for personal faith in Jesus Christ. Mormonism calls for obedience to its own teachings as the path to exaltation. Mormonism replaces belief in the sole authority of the Bible with other writings, including the Book of Mormon. This list is only a brief summary of the vast chasm that separates Christianity from Mormonism. Put simply, Mormonism is not just another form of Christianity. It is a rejection of historic Christianity.
Question for Hugh Hewitt: Is Dr. Albert Mohler a bigot?
Though most of your conclusions regarding the doctrine of Mormonism are incorrect this one is half true:
“Put simply, Mormonism is not just another form of Christianity. It is a rejection of historic Christianity.”
While Mormonism is a form of Christanity, the central figure of thier religion is Jesus Christ, it is as you claim a “rejection of historic Christianity.”
Mormons claim that there was an Apostacy and that for a time the authority of Jesus and the Prophets and Apostles who govern Christ’s Church were rejected, martyred, and vanished from the earth. They also believe that God has once again spoken to a Prophet on this earth and that through the ministering of Angels restored his priesthood authority by the laying on of hands for ordination. They also believe that priesthood authority continues upon this earth and that Jesus Christ organized and leads his church by revelation once again through Prophets and Apostles.
In other words “Mormons” believe in the true fundamental principles of Chritian religion as taught in the Bible as well as continuing revelation and additional scripture revealed by God to man through Prophets.
Also you assert that because Mormons believe that God has a physical immortal and glorified body and is not just a spirit they are not therefore “Christian.” However, that contradicts the bible itself which clearly showed that after his Resurrection Jesus Christ himself had a physical body. In fact even after he ascended to the Father he came back and showed himself to his deciples on many occasions and when they were afraid and thought he was just a spirit he showed them that he had a physical body by allowing them to touch the prints in his hands.
Jesus being the literal Son of God is not unlike his Father and has become like, receiving all the Father has being resurrected and glorified with an immortal physical body.
So your statement that Mormonism rejects historical Christianity is only partially correct… they reject modern historical Christianity… that which fails to understand the Bible, the teachings of the prophets, their witnesses in the Bible, the organization of Christ’s Church as it was originally organized and structured by him in the New Testiment, and of course many of Christs own teachings.
Instead modern “hitorical Christianity” as you describe it tends to lean on the understanding of man and his interpretation rather than revelation and deep personal study and understanding of the scriptures.
I am supporting Ron Paul for President, and am a Mormon. Most of my friends are not members of my church, and I often have attended meetings or vacation bible schools with them and their families. I have the utmost respect for all of these people – how they lead their lives, and their devotion to Jesus Christ. However, one experience I had a few years ago serves to illustrate why Mormons believe we are Christian, and why we have trouble understanding why some people do not believe we are Christian. While attending vacation bible school with some friends in Raleigh, North Carolina, the pastor divided the adults into two classes – the “advanced” bible class, and the “beginner” bible class. My wife and I both served Mormon missions as young adults, and though a little leery decided to attend the “advanced” Bible class. It turned out that of the 40-50 adults, 6 people, including us, went to the advanced class. The class over the course of the week turned out not to be about the bible, but about the creeds of the Christian churches.
The first creed discussed was the Apostle’s Creed, which states:
=-=-=-=
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Amen.
=-=-==
The teacher, who was not the pastor, then asked each student around the table what they thought of this creed. One expressed some reservation about Jesus “rising from the dead” and the part about “the resurrection of the body”, in that it implied that Christ arose with a body and that there will be a physical resurrection. Another did not believe the portion of the creed that indicated that Christ descended into hell. Another questioned how he could sit at the right hand of God if he was God.
My wife and I were the last ones to speak. Both of us answered that we felt the creed reflected the biblical teachings of Christ and the Apostles correctly, and we believed in the creed 100%.
My point is that many people “cling” to the different beliefs of Mormons from other Christian churches, while ignoring the fact that the core Mormons beliefs match the creeds of the early Christian church closer than the beliefs of their particular sect.
Even the controversy about Mormon belief/disbelief in the Trinity is enlightening. Mormons believe in the Trinity, although not in same way as most other Christian sects teach the Trinity. Mormons believe that the three members of the Trinity can be referred to as one God, as they are one in purpose, and never vary from one another in thought. Indeed, Mormons believe that if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father, because they look, act, think, and do exactly alike. The only difference between the beliefs, which is entire exagerrated, is that most other Christian sects believe the three members of the Trinity are three manifestations of the same being. But if the three are separate beings but think, act, and do as One, isn’t the net result the same thing?
There are many beliefs in different sects that outsiders could call “bizarre”, but at the core, Christians, including Mormons, believe the same basic things. Some examples of “bizaare things” that are either shared beliefs that Mormons have with other Christians, or are believed and taught by other sects, are:
Transubstantiation – (not a Mormon belief)
Virgin Birth – (a Mormon belief)
Worship of Saints – (not a Mormon belief)
Earth created in 6000 years – (most Mormons don’t believe, but no official Church stance)
Infallibility of the Bible – (not a Mormon belief)
Faith Healings – (a Mormon belief)
Prophecy – (a Mormon belief)
Speaking in Tongues – (a Mormon belief)
Jesus casting evil spirits into Pigs – (a Mormon belief)
I strongly disagree with this statement: Mormonism denies the historic Christian understandings of the Trinity, the person and work of Christ, and the doctrine of salvation. Christianity promises salvation through Christ’s atonement and the sinner’s justification by faith. Mormonism promises deification. Christianity calls for personal faith in Jesus Christ. Mormonism calls for obedience to its own teachings as the path to exaltation. Mormonism replaces belief in the sole authority of the Bible with other writings, including the Book of Mormon.
We do not believe in the historis Trinity…we believe in a Godhead and we do not believe that the bible is inerrant or that any book is (we don’t replace the bible though). Every point in between is absolutely false.
O’Donnel’s statements are probably the worse statements I’ve ever heard blathered in a while. I Believe in the faith of my fathers too. My great x’s 4 or 5 grandfather was the first jewish convert to the LDS faith. He lived in Nauvoo and moved out with the saint when they were forced to leave. He made a home in a desert and with the saints made a place where generations grew up in faith…not a perfect knowledge, vulnerable to the thoughts and theories of man, but with a faith that grew children and homes. My mother believes strongly in the faith and despite her many mistakes and falls, her faith stood and kept. My extended family also believes, they don’t all agree on everything and some of the things my aunt says states the ignorance of a rural upbringing. But I understand Romney’s position faith isn’t perfection, it isn’t agreeing with every statement ever made by a church official. For us faith is living, progressing in our understand in G-d and the world around us. It’s a learning process and I am proud of my heritage. I believe every little bit.
I’m half Nigerian…sometimes I wonder what he’d say if someone like me was running for canidacy. Would he be that self-deluded to start the same diatribe and then wonder about how someone could believe like that….in a racist faith, that she must be some self-hating biracial girl. Or would they finally get the hint that maybe they’re just a little wrong.
Paul,
I completely agree with you on this. I’m definitly concerned about how people like Hewitt are clouding their judgment on Mormonism just because they like him so much. I just can’t believe how cultural conservatives who believe that we derive our freedoms and blessings as a nation from God and need to return to him, have become so pragmatic. I just don’t understand why these people don’t support Huckabee, not only are his “values ‘based’ around the Bible”, but he actually has the correct view of the Bible and God (from what I can tell). Romney is certainly qualified to be president if he is elected, but unfortunatly his presidency will legitamize a growing cult as mainline Christianity. Mormons are definitly trying to sell themselves as such, as it has taken a huge discussion at steff’s blog just to begin to demonstrate that we have two completely different ideas of God and worldviews.