11 comments to “An Evangelical Manifesto: Timely or Timeless?”

  1. Pixelmaster | May 15, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    “It’s somewhat pathetic, isn’t it, that rather than making our initial judgments on the merits of the Manifesto we choose first to skip the document altogether and go straight to the signatories to ascertain whether or not we will agree with its contents based on who affixed their names”

    Couldn’t disagree more, folks read the document, saw how reasonable and well put together it is and how it reflects Christ’s true nature of bottom up instead of top down values approach and wondered why certain folks on the right were not signing on. Also, it’s not like there isn’t a history here with the merger of politics and faith on the right.

    “What have conservative evangelicals to show for our political efforts in terms of real change?”

    Maybe it is time for the social conservatives to rethink their approach, they have chosen a political party as their savior instead of truly enganging in society and allowing the work of christ in us to effect the society. IE we choose to vote a certain party to abolish abortion instead of understanding the social reasons for aborion and trying to change them from bottom up.

    “Rather it rightly points out that political engagement, while certainly the duty of every Christian citizen, is not the priority of the Church”

    This means actually being ingaged in the process, understanding the issues, not accepting immoral actions of a person you voted for and actually listening to an opposing view.

    I hope this manifesto helps use all come together for the sake of christ, our current methods of marrying a certain party and legistating social change from top down instead of bottom up will not only push folks away but it will represent christ in an unworthy manner to those who might need him.

  2. Don Sivyer | May 15, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    “God had foreordained everything that comes to pass— though He had predestinated the fall of our first parents, yet in no sense was He the‚ Instigator or approver of their sins, and their accountability was left entirely unimpaired—The decree of God in no way infringes on man’s moral agency, for it neither forces nor hinders man’s will, though it orders and bounds its actions.”

    I’m not sure I can parallell this dualistic quote, but should the first part be true… Whats the debate? All the argument must be what is.

    For the record, I follow Jesus.

  3. Nancy Scott | May 15, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    Listening with your heart takes input from the word, time, practice and patience. Our mortal enemy knows this and is a master at distraction. While we bicker and pick at one another, he walks off with whatever he wants and we are left destitute, not even realizing our loss. At the end of the book, we still win, but how good and how pleasant our journey would be it we would learn to dwell in unity.

  4. skeptimal | May 17, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    I can’t help but suspect that the real conservative problem with this document is not its signatories but the fact that it suggests non-Christians should be treated as something other than mindless tools of Satan. Dobson’s fortune and those of the religious right have been built on creating unthinking fear of those who don’t buy the conservative party line. They would be lost without the hatred that motivates them, and they will not willingly give it up.

  5. Iggy | May 19, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    ” can’t help but suspect that the real conservative problem with this document is not its signatories but the fact that it suggests non-Christians should be treated as something other than mindless tools of Satan. Dobson’s fortune and those of the religious right have been built on creating unthinking fear of those who don’t buy the conservative party line. They would be lost without the hatred that motivates them, and they will not willingly give it up.”

    Said the single secular humanist on this blog who is a liar because he is a secular humanist, who has no accountability because he is a secular humanist, who is possessed by Satan himself because he is a secular humanist, who is for gay marriage because he is a secular humanist, who likes abortion and uses the fetuses to offer sacrifices to Satan, whom possesses him because he is a secular humanist. I learnt that from my mentor P. Robertson…..
    Is that pretty accurate of you Skeptimal?

  6. skeptimal | May 20, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    “…who likes abortion and uses the fetuses to offer sacrifices to Satan, whom possesses him because he is a secular humanist. I learnt that from my mentor P. Robertson…..
    Is that pretty accurate of you Skeptimal?”

    You caught me, darn it! I didn’t think anyone would be able to pierce the Satanic veil of deception I weave around myself using witchcraf–er–I mean…the “theory of evolution.”

  7. Pixelmaster | May 20, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    That was pretty good Iggy. Skeptimal, I do appreaciate your comments on this blog, they are well thought out and you understand where the real danger lies. As an evengelical the world is always framed that we are in lockstep with God and everyone else is in lockstep with satan. Even to so-called liberal christians who think that social justice and helping the poor are as important a the right wing social causes. I agree with many of the social ills that the right wing bring up, I simply think they are fighting them in a, dare I say “unChristlike” manner. I choose Christ, not his right wing blowhards…..

  8. skeptimal | May 21, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    Pix,

    Thanks for that. This is an unusual forum, in that Paul has strongly held opinions, but he allows dissent to be voiced. I respect that a great deal, and I respect that you and I probably would disagree strongly on many issues. And these are more than just idle discussions if you believe abortion is murder and I believe the religious right intends to establish a theocracy.

    No matter who is in the majority regarding philosophy or religion, civilization itself is built on our ability to peacefully co-exist despite our differences. I fear that many on the right would rather end civilization than live peacefully with liberals, moderates, or non-Christians.

    We are all better off, however, if we insist on treating each other with respect and protect each other’s rights and dignity. That’s why the “manifesto” is so encouraging to me. It suggests that *some* Christians are willing to negotiate for lasting peace.

  9. Don Sivyer | May 21, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

  10. Pixelmaster | May 21, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    To further that point skeptimal, I would have to say that GW Bush has been the greatest eye opener to what goes wrong when politics and faith is merged. Many Christians under 40 look at the current situation and reject much of what the far right is doing. While they agree on the social ills they reject the method of going to the voting booth to fix those ills. They are becoming engaged in society and working with all people to fix the issues instead of looking to corrupt politicians as an answer.
    The right can no longer sing the tune it used to, they need to come to the center, realized that a theocracy is not going to be established and start trying to be reconcilers instead of dividers. This is the Jesus way, this is the Christian way. BTW, good book on this topic, Faith and Politics by ex republican Senator John Danforth.
    Regarding the topic of abortion, I do think it is murder, however, I think the right is fighting the issue the wrong way, instead of going to the voting booth to fix the issue they should be going to the inner-city and trying to resolve the underlying reason why many abortions happen. In a Christian, “love the sinner, hate the sin” way we can make a difference in people lives while maybe reducing the amount of abortions that are needed from the under privilege people who make a mistake and can’t afford to support themselves let alone a baby. But our answer is to vote people who claim to support our values, while they do nothing for the social cause and do everything to make the plight of the poor worse. We choose a “hate the sin, and don’t care about the sinner or their situations”. Note, I never said that abortion is acceptable, but I think the method I propose would go a long with people like skeptimal, who think that abortion is not murder. We in the evangelical community have lost our way, and I point to the late 70 early 80′s to the merger of our faith and politics as a key factor.

  11. Nancy | June 14, 2008 | Permalink Reply

    This blog is SO excellent IF it is read in context! I have been going back and reading the responses in context with the surrounding ones and find it quite “better than most” in blogdom…this particular response from Pixel gives me a bit of a chuckle from my view point…someone who came of age in the 60′s… Ok children have you ever heard any of these words???…Hippies, the Beatles (the group not the cars), the Cuban Missle Crisis, Free Love, John F. Kenedy’s Camelot, Jesus People, Viet Nam, Martin Luther King, the Berlin Wall…for the most part, all scary and survivable…to every thing turn, turn, turn, there is a season… *: )

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